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Managing Your Calendar and Your Life
with Mark S. A. Smith
Are you stressed and asking yourself questions?
- Does your to-do list get longer every day?
- Are you swamped by the urgent but unimportant tasks that don’t move you toward your strategic initiatives?
- Would you like to delegate tasks but have been burned by poor performance or untimely output of your subordinates?
If you’ve answered “yes” to any of these questions, join me and Mark S A Smith to fix these delegation problems forever.
After a successful career in helping to bring to market billions of dollars of disruptive technology, Mark S A Smith now works with heart-centered leaders faced with chaos and upheavals to bring them new perspective to make wise decisions.
As we transition from the Experience Economy, where people bought what was memorable, to the Transformation Economy, where people buy meaningful, authentic, and socially responsible, business models from the past fall apart.
The solution is Nimbility, which is the intersection of resilience and innovation.
This is exemplified in his two new books, The Nimble C-Suite: How to Align the Diverse Strengths of Your Executive Team to Predictably Deliver Extraordinary Results in a Transformational Economy, and The Nimble Company: A Proactive, Socially Responsible Framework for Driving Sustained Profits and Growth in a Chronically Chaotic World.
Co-founder of NimbilityWorks, a consulting firm dedicated to helping leaders embrace Nimbility, he brings his broad leadership perspective, extensive business models, professional speaking capacity, and tightly-honed coaching skills to leaders who desire to lead transformational businesses and teams that make a difference.
Find Mark S A Smith on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/marksasmith/
Read the Interview Transcript
Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. It’s Hugh Ballou, back for another episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. You’ll find today’s topic fascinating. Above fascinating, it’s a key topic for success. My guest today is a dear friend, supporter, and a board member of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. He has so much wisdom to share, but we just had to choose one topic today. Mark Smith, tell people about who you are. What’s your passion for doing the work that you do?
Mark S. A. Smith: Thank you. It’s an honor to be here. Welcome, everyone. I’m Mark S. A. Smith. I’m a business growth strategist who works with executives to help figure out the path of growing their organizations. It’s usually by helping them get out of their own way. I do executive coaching, do executive training, write books, conduct seminars, and spend a lot of time thinking.
My passion is to share with executives how to approach problems strategically that allows them to find new solutions they had never considered before. The reason why this is my passion is because it leverages me. I can only speak to a number of executives every year. When I teach them how to use these methodologies, they can teach others. Therefore, these ideas can be multiplied across the planet, and I can have a broader impact. In every case, my goal is to make you more effective, which means you achieve the objective you are called to achieve.
Today, I want to share with you one of the missing strategies from many executives’ toolboxes: how to effectively delegate tasks without losing control, abdicating responsibility, and having all that blow up in your face.
Hugh: Very well stated. Mark, I don’t find a big difference in the skillset in corporate executives or nonprofit leaders or clergy. There are some myths we tell ourselves regardless. One is delegation is a weakness. We ought to do it ourselves. Well, we ought to be willing to do it ourselves. We have to know how to do it in order to delegate it. Why do we tell ourselves these myths that would actually empower us rather than limit us?
Mark: There are probably three fundamental reasons why people limit themselves to delegate. First, they are cheap. I have plenty of time. I can do this myself. If I bring somebody in, I have to hire them and pay them. We are going to talk about that today and why that is ridiculous. You are the most highly valued person in the organization. Everybody is going to be able to do it for less cost than you’re doing it for.
The second reason is because they have delegated things in the past, and they have been burned. They believe if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself. That is absolutely not true. There are a lot of people out there who can do it better than you can. It’s their profession. It’s what they do for a living. You’re making a very poor copy of what they could do professionally. Therefore, your arrogance and ego are getting in the way of actually doing a better job.
The third reason is because they just don’t know how to do it. Delegation is an executive skill. It’s not like, “Just go do this.” There are some things you have to do to make sure it’s successful.
Today, we will fix the last one of those things. You will have to fix the first two. You will have to get over being cheap, and you have to get over thinking you’re the one who can do it best. What we can focus on is how do we actually get this done?
Hugh: This is a topic near and dear to my heart. As you know, I champion transformational leadership as a style of leadership. #1 is define things that you can let go of, that other people can do for you. Like you pointed out, probably better than you can do it. There is a number of reasons. Those are three good reasons. There is also the reason of people want to be in control, and they lose control by delegating.
Mark, I have seen in the last many years—and it’s been compounded with this current pandemic, but it didn’t start here. It’s been going on for many years—burnout, especially huge with clergy but in nonprofits. The Meyer Foundation did some research. Before the pandemic, 45% of leaders were burned out and leaving the profession. 75% were looking at the door to exit. That’s a situation that we contribute to. Tell us how that works. How does delegation help us with the burnout piece?
Mark: First of all, burnout happens when you have more decisions to make than you have cognitive capacity to make them. The truth is you can only make so many decisions a day. At the end of the day, you’re out of decision-making power. Steve Jobs wore the same outfit every day. One less decision he had to make. He was driven to work because there are thousands of micro decisions that have come into play when you drive down the road. Ever wonder why you’re so exhausted after eight hours of driving? You have made hundreds of thousands of decisions, most of them subconsciously. Doesn’t matter. The exhaustion comes from decision fatigue.
What we have to do is look for ways of reducing the number of decisions that we make, so that we can handle the complexity of the organization. Even if a task takes a moment, even if you can do it better than anybody else, if you can delegate it to somebody else, that’s one fewer set of decisions you need to make, which reduces your cognitive burnout.
The way to summarize this is executives have more on their to-think list than on their to-do list. That is your real value to the organization. We have to take things off your plate. We have to reduce the amount of cognitive load you have so that you reserve your decision-making power for those that have the highest impact and the most value.
Hugh: Let me throw one more at you. That’s very helpful, thank you. The leader is the visionary. Visionaries are rarely tactical in addition to being visionary. We’re doing something that’s not in our skillset normally. What do you think of that?
Mark: I think what happens is most leaders are tacticians attempting to be visionaries. They have been taught strategic tools. They are trying to focus on the how-to versus what we’re trying to accomplish and why. That is one of the biggest challenges that we face is that transition from moving to a tactical thinker, which is all about getting it done, to the strategic thinker, which is all about the vision. If you’re going to be a visionary, you have to have the tools to be a visionary. You have to leave behind the do-how because do-how is ephemeral. How we get things done has a life span to it.
As a visionmaker, strategic skills are eternal. It’s one of the most amazing things. People say, “I know how to do it.” No, you have to know how to strategize about it. That strategic capacity will last your entire life, but knowing how to do a Facebook ad will change in the next six months.
Hugh: Therefore, you need to hire somebody who is kept abreast of all those changes.
Mark: That’s right. They’re passionate about it. That’s what they like to do. They’re a professional.
Hugh: By the way, we’re the leader. We’re not the doer.
Hugh: Let’s unpack that creating the vision. We want to live in the weeds. I have studied the work of Murray Bowen and his eight concepts. One thing that jumps out at me when I work with leaders is the single most important thing that hurts us is what he calls overfunctioning. We do things other people could do for us. Therefore, there is a reciprocity of underfunctioning.
An example with our boards is nonprofit leaders tend to hand out all the to-do lists and tell these very skilled people what they want them to do rather than defining the end result and letting the expert define the pathway.
Let’s create the strategy. That is key. If you’re going to delegate, you really have to give them what the end result looks like. Take it from there. Then delve into those three things that you said were reasons people didn’t delegate.
Mark: I’m going to take a slightly different path. The thing I want to talk about before we dig into how we do that is putting into context your value as an executive. If your organization does $1 million in revenue, you’re responsible for $480 per hour of that revenue. 2,000 hours a year. If you’re doing anything that you can outsource for less than your time is worth, you must do so.
The way we come up with that formula is $1 million divided by eight hours a day x five days a week x 52 weeks a year is $480.75 an hour. Just round it up. For every $1 million you’re bringing to your organization, you’re responsible for $500 per hour of that revenue. That is what you’re responsible for, so you better use that responsibility well.
When it comes to traditional time management—we have heard this forever—we talk about the four D’s: dump, delay, delegate, and do. Classic time management. Dump is just get rid of the task. No, I’m not doing that.
Delay, just defer the task. It just might go away. Or we will delay it until we need to because we don’t have enough information or resources yet.
Delegate: Oh, there it is. Can you get somebody else to perform the task?
Do as a last resort. The problem is that for many executives, delegation leads to abdication of accountability. That’s when you get burned.
Here is the solution. Here is how we start. We begin with a list of all of your tasks. Review your past month’s to-do list. Make a list of everything that shows up on the list. Analyze what you can delegate. Don’t skip anything. Even if the demand is for one minute, if it happens multiple times throughout a month, put it on your list. That is where we start. A list of all your tasks. What is it that you have to do?
Then we take a look at those tasks. The first thing we need to do is identify who the scorekeeper is for each of those tasks. How are they going to judge a good job? The scorekeeper is the person or organization that is placing the demand on you. Those are the people you have to satisfy with the task outcome. When you identify the scorekeeper, you can identify their satisfaction criteria.
For example, taxes. Who is placing that demand on you? Who is the scorekeeper? The CPA and the IRS. How will they know when you have done a good job? Timely and accurate.
Strategic initiatives. Who is placing that demand on you? Shareholders, boards of directors, even yourself. What is the outcome they are looking for? Effective, contributes to the mission.
Travel arrangements. Who is the scorekeeper for that? You are. How are we going to keep score? Is it comfortable, convenient, cost-effective?
Maybe a spouse’s birthday present. Who is the scorekeeper for that? You and your spouse. How are you going to know when you have done a good job? When they say, “How thoughtful. That’s just what I wanted.” Task, scorekeeper, how do we know that we have done a good job?
From that, now we can take the next step. We know what the outcome is, and we know when the outcome is good. They lack confidence because they don’t know what good is. They haven’t been shown what good is for their job. They lack self-confidence because they don’t know if they will do good or not. When we delegate, we must tell the person who we’re delegating to what good is. See how important that is?
Hugh: Yes. We have a paradigm, I have noticed in the nonprofit world. If we have really caring people who have a passion and even a specific gift for whatever they’re doing, feeding people, housing people, however, they have never really developed their capacity to lead. We’re social entrepreneurs. We have an idea and are going with it. One of the pushbacks I hear when you’re talking about this assessment, find out where you’re spending your time. People think of reasons as excuses. “I don’t have time to do that. I’m too busy.” How would you respond to that?
Mark: The reason why you’re too busy is because you have too much on your to-do list. Why don’t we take a few things off your to-do list so you’re not so busy?
Hugh: “I have tried that before. But you know, they just didn’t perform up to my expectations.”
Mark: Did they know what your expectations were?
Hugh: No. We’re rallying around your third point. People don’t know how to delegate. We don’t have confidence because we dabbled in it, and it didn’t work, so we pulled it back. I want to do it myself because I want it done right. How many things can you do? If you have a bunch of volunteers, you’re robbing them of an opportunity to share their passion.
Mark: Right. You are stealing their ability to contribute. Ouch. Now that we know the task, the scorekeeper, and what good is, then we have to identify what skills are required to get to good.
Hugh: Let me ask about good. it could be subjective. Do we look at our core team or advisors? How do we really get centered on what good is?
Mark: That depends on the scorekeeper. Good is dependent upon the scorekeeper. That’s why we have to identify the scorekeeper because they are the one who is going to decide whether it’s good. Sometimes they’re internal; sometimes they’re external. Sometimes the scorekeeper is us. It doesn’t really matter. Who is the person who is going to judge goodness?
Hugh: Is a scorekeeper somebody with really good analytical skills?
Mark: Not necessarily. It’s the person who decides whether this is good. For example, the tax example. The scorekeeper is the CPA and the IRS.
Hugh: Specific skillset.
Mark: Specific outcome declared as being good.
Hugh: Yes. Go for it.
Mark: The next thing is what skills are required. Now that we know what good is, for each task, we want to identify the skillset that matches the satisfaction criteria. Fundamentally, there are four levels of skill required.
We have an unskilled person. This is a task that could be accomplished by a low wage person with a simple checklist: cleaning, filing, folding, setting up a meeting room, ordering catering. You should never, ever do these tasks.
Hugh: But we do.
Mark: Don’t you do that ever again. That is what a volunteer is for. You can give them this checklist, and they will follow it. That’s good.
Then we have semi-skilled. This task can be performed by somebody with some experience, such as travel arrangements, compiling reports, creating simple spreadsheets, doing bookkeeping, writing correspondence. While you will be tempted, you need to delegate these.
The next one is skilled. This is a task performed by a skilled professional. It’s their career. Often, they are licensed or degreed. These are tasks like tax preparation, financial analysis, marketing strategy, sales copy, operational analysis, IT administration. You have no business doing IT; you will just screw it up. You have no business doing these jobs. The people who are going to do them are much better at them than you are. The cost of failure is high, but the cost of success is low.
Hugh: Say that again.
Mark: When you try to do something that should be done by a skilled professional, the cost of failure is high. When you hire them, the cost of success is low.
Hugh: Love it.
Mark: Then the fourth class is strategic. This is a task that requires experience, business acumen, leadership, cognitive capacity, cultural context, the ability to foresee the future. Sounds like it’s perfect for the leader. These are the items that you’re going to keep on your to-do list. This includes negotiation, strategy development, purchase decisions, executive peer conversations. This is your prime job.
You need to reserve all of your cognitive capacity to do these things. They require a lot of cognitive capacity. If you’re chewing up your cognitive capacity with anything on those other three lists, you’re shortchanging your organization. Just frickin’ resign, would ya? Make room for somebody who can do these things. Get out of the way of your company.
Hugh: We’re our biggest problem, aren’t we?
Mark: Sometimes. That’s why I started the task: How do I help executives grow? I help them get out of their own way.
Hugh: Suppose I’m a nonprofit leader who has a bunch of eager people around me asking what to do. We’re going to plan a gala. It’s a big annual event that helps people know what we do. It brings them together in community. We also can raise a lot of money there if we do it right. Let’s say, “Hey, how do we set up this important event? I need to have my fingers in every bit of it.” What are some of the things we do wrong? What should we be doing in setting up a process for that?
Mark: It’s interesting that a gala is only done by nonprofits. Nobody else calls them galas. It means Get Alot of Lucre Asap. That’s what GALA stands for.
Hugh: But the people know that. They come with their checkbooks.
Mark: They do. They know a gala is a chance for them to gleefully get shaken down. They agree to that. Galas. Who decides what good is for galas?
Hugh: I guess the board should decide because they are the ones responsible.
Mark: Nope. The board isn’t writing any frickin’ checks.
Hugh: But the board is responsible for the money.
Mark: All right. Who is going to be giving them that money?
Hugh: Well, the people they influence.
Mark: Those are the scorekeepers. Those are the people who decide what good looks like. Good should be decided by the people you want to have show up. Everything else is an illusion of your imagination based on some experience you’ve had in the past, whether it’s good or not. Why don’t you ask your people who write you the biggest checks what they would like the gala to be like?
Mark: What a radical idea.
Hugh: Radical is good. We have what we call normal, which was really fat and sassy and not really high-functioning. We went into the pandemic. People think we are going to a new normal. No, we are in a new radical. This fits right into my thinking.
Mark: Right on, friend. New radical. That’s what we gotta do. Now that you know what your biggest check writers would love to experience at a gala that make them feel like writing these checks is absolutely in alignment with their purpose in life, then we can start to design what that is going to look like. Then we can tell people what good looks like for each of the chunks. What does good look like for the food, the decorations, the invitations, the entertainment, the accolades and awards presented? What does good look like for every one of those pieces of the gala that will make them open their checkbook to write a check for what they wrote last year + 20%?
Mark: Let’s stop imagining what our people want and start asking them what they want. Then we can figure out what good means for each of those pieces. Then you can assign that to professionals who know what good looks like.
Hugh: We stay out of their way.
Let’s go back to what you said at the beginning. We’re afraid of losing control. How do we maintain control and not get in the way?
Mark: This is going beyond what I have in mind, but that’s okay. We maintain control by realizing that control is based on the outcome that we desire to achieve. We create some checkpoints and milestones to make sure we are on the path to good. What does that look like?
Show me the one sheet that describes what you’re going to do for food. Great. That’s a checkpoint. Describe for me how we know that we’re going to choose a vendor that is going to be able to deliver this to the 1,000 people who show up, and everything is warm and tasty. That’s because that’s what they do every day of the year as caterers. You don’t want a gala catered by volunteers unless you’re doing a gala in the church basement.
Hugh: Would one of those experts be an event manager that knows how to plan and carry off events?
Mark: Gosh, wouldn’t that be amazing. They have deep experience in making sure that events are glorious. They know everybody to talk to. They know all the tricks, traps, failure points. They make sure it works. They’re the one who takes on the craziness. You’re going to make so much more money since you can pay for that meeting planner easily. They are a legitimate expense. A good meeting planner is going to make sure your contracts don’t screw you. That in itself is worth their fee. If you’ve ever done a contract with a hotel with banquet facilities, you have been screwed.
Meeting planners will go, “No, we’re not doing that.” They will go, “Okay, okay.” You will save yourself the meeting planner’s fee just in keeping yourself from being taken by the banquet facilities. They’re well-meaning, blah blah blah. But there are still issues there.
Hugh: Let’s go back to your three points. You started us off with three reasons people don’t delegate. Would you highlight those again? What have we not covered?
Mark: The first reason they don’t delegate is because they’re cheap. They don’t want to pay for help. Secondly, they lose control. They feel like if it’s going to be done right, they have to do it themselves. The third reason is- what is it, Hugh?
Hugh: They don’t know how to delegate.
Mark: They don’t know how to delegate! Thank you for bailing me out of my loss of reason.
Hugh: You’re just testing my cognitive abilities.
Mark: Should we quickly run through how you delegate this stuff?
Mark: Your new mantra is eliminate, simplify, automate, outsource, and insource. Eliminate is can you get rid of this?
Can we simplify this so we can push it down to a non-skilled person if possible?
Can we automate this? Is this something we can turn into a software or something like that?
Can we outsource this? Can we hire somebody?
As a last resort, we insource. Insourcing is the most expensive. The reason why is because you have to hire the person, train them, feed them, etc.
The next step is the tasks we have identified we are going to outsource or delegate. We turn them into a procedure with step-by-step instructions. Every task has a start trigger; a procedure, the steps we go through; inputs, which are required to get the job done; outputs, which are created by the task; a stop trigger, which means we’re done; and quality control, which means this is goodness.
There may be a timeline and milestones for a complete task, but you manage it. We want to build in some milestone triggers to alert you when a task is partially completed, and that is how we keep from losing control of something like a gala.
The secret to consistency is document what you do, and do what you document. You might be thinking, “Oh gosh, I don’t want to write a procedure.” The fastest way to do this is turn on your audio recorder and tell the story of how you execute the task. Put all the information about acceptable levels of performance. For example, you don’t want a graphic design effort on the internal report that gets filed, but you want a customer-facing document to conform to your branding standards. Say what an adequate level of performance is. Transcribe the audio recording. Read the transcripts to the delegate you want to have perform the task and watch them execute the task. By doing that, you will figure out if you have missed any steps. You will look for unclear instructions, missing steps, quality control metrics. You can then update your task and procedure for the document. That way, you know that whomever you delegate to can actually do the job.
Hugh: Great. That introspective piece of making sure you didn’t leave something out. Sometimes we’re so close to it that we have blind spots, and we don’t know what we have left out.
Mark: That’s right. We do it automatically. We don’t even think about it as a part of it. That process right there of telling a story of how you do it, transcribing it, and reading it to somebody who you will have do the job. Yes, it will take some training, but once you are able to have them step through it completely, you know they will be able to do the task because the process is clear.
The next step is to determine the test triggers. What will start a task? What will stop a task? You will use these triggers to automatically cause the task to get done. For example, if a task is routine, such as a Monday report, or on demand, such as you’re going out of town to a meeting, those are the types of triggers you would look at.
Then we build a special calendar just for delegation. We build an online calendar like Google Calendar that hosts all the stop triggers and all the milestone triggers. This keeps your calendar clear and lets you stay on top of all the delegated tasks. When you want to trigger a delegated task, you schedule it on your delegated calendar. When you want it to be complete, that triggers the assignment via email to the delegate. When they agree to the appointment, they confirm they have accepted the task with delivery on that date. Wow. How cool is that?
Hugh: This is so helpful, Mark.
Mark: Then you can take a look at your calendar and figure out what’s coming up. If you need to check in, how are you coming in against that deadline? What do you need? What’s missing? Routine tasks such as reports, it’s scheduled as recurring events. Part of your daily routine becomes checking the delegate calendar to monitor progress and assure all those tasks get completed on time.
Hugh: You have to delegate enough stuff to be able to follow up on.
Mark: Yes, of course. That is the reason we delegate via calendar. All tasks have a deadline. The calendar is the way for us to get to that deadline.
Hugh: We’re in bonus territory this session, Mark. What else do you want to share?
Mark: I want to add one more thing. It may not run smoothly. We may have to troubleshoot this. We have to get a lot of feedback during the initial delegation phase until the task gets performed smoothly and on time. We have to provide regular leadership feedback with appreciation. “Thank you for doing this task. You did it perfectly. I sure appreciate you.”
If the work is unacceptable, we have to go back to the procedure document to determine if we have a flawed procedure. Or if the situation came up where they can’t do it, they don’t have the skills or the physical resources. Or if they have lost motivation, they don’t care anymore. We have to test against those three reasons. Those are the three reasons why a delegate is going to fail something you delegated to them. This lets you very quickly troubleshoot the root cause and fix the problem. With that, now you have a complete system.
Hugh: We want to make sure that we’re clear on what we want. We might be setting up the problem. That’s a blind spot. We aren’t aware that we set up the problem, and we blame other people for the situation we created.
Mark: That’s right. We have to stay out of that if you are going to successfully delegate. You can see that this provides a complete process, front to back, on how to do delegation. Most delegation procedures miss many of these steps that I have shared with you. It’s the reason why they fail.
As an engineer, I think like a process. What is going to create a process that will give us a perfect output every time? What I just described to you is how you can get there, so you can retain control and get it done for less than you can do it, and you won’t get burned in delegating tasks.
Hugh: If this is not your skillset as the nonprofit executive, maybe you need an admin person who can work alongside you to define all these pieces. If we’re burned out and under water, and we have more to do, we need to get ourselves out of that bucket. When we are facing this burnout, and we haven’t delegated enough stuff, how do we start getting out of that pit?
Mark: To get rid of burnout, you have to take things off your plate. There is no other solution. Things must come off your plate. What we’re going to do is go back to the original 4 D’s: Dump. What can I take off my plate that should not be on my plate whatsoever? What can we get rid of? What can we eliminate? Not ever going to come back on my plate.
Delay. What do I have on my plate right now that I don’t have to pay attention to for another three months? Maybe I can renegotiate a deadline.
Within those two things, I can take those things off my plate. Now I may have enough breathing room to actually figure out how to delegate what else is on my plate.
Hugh: Those first two are very hard when we think we have to do everything. You need somebody to help figure out why you don’t have to do it.
Mark: Tell me why you have to do this report. “Well, we have always done it.” That makes it sacred?
Hugh: Mark, this is important data. It’s stuff we can take and use. It’s great to get this list. Is there a final tip or thought you’d like to leave people with today, Mark?
Mark: People might be thinking, “Why the heck are you in your truck?” The reason why is because I’m a nomad. I live in the wilderness. Where I am currently camped, there is no cell service. I drive 25 minutes to come to a town where I can get enough bars for us to have this conversation. When I’m in nomad territory where there’s no cell service, my truck becomes my office. As you can see, I’ve got it all arranged so I can do all these things. It actually works great.
What that means is I have a digital detox every day. I have maybe three hours of connectivity, and the rest of the time, it’s just thinking time. Perhaps one of the things you need to do to reduce your burnout is to have connectivity hours, where after, say, 5pm, you’re not available anymore. Until 9am, you’re just not available anymore. You have enough time to recover and think and contemplate and connect to your creator instead of being pulled every direction possible, which is going to contribute to your brain fry.
Hugh: Wise words indeed. Give yourself a break. Give yourself a rest. Give yourself time to play, time to think. What a novel concept, Mark. This is just powerful. That was worth coming today. Mark S. A. Smith, where can people find you?
Mark: The best way to find me is on LinkedIn. MarksOnLinkedIn.com. Tell me you saw me on The Nonprofit Exchange. I’ll be glad to connect with you.
If you have a blood spurting problem, “Mark, I need help, and I need it now.” Text me: 719-440-0439. Don’t leave a voicemail. That makes me work. I will respond to you just as soon as I can. We can set up a conversation to see how I might be able to help you with your blood spurting problem.
Hugh: That is a generous offer. Mark S. A. Smith, you will find one and only amongst all the Smiths in the world. Great value to me and to leaders all over the world. Mark, thank you so much for being our guest today.