Are You Sabotaging Your Mission?

How Self-Sabotage Shapes Nonprofit Culture

Dr. Philip Agrios is a self-sabotage expert, best-selling author, international speaker, and creator of The T-NOW Method™. Drawing on more than 30 years of research and work with thousands of people, he helps business owners, nonprofit leaders, and executive directors recognize the hidden patterns that can undermine their success. His approach reveals how the same traits that drive achievement can become self-sabotaging when operating in Protection rather than Growth. Dr. Agrios teaches leaders how to recognize these patterns as they occur, shift their response, and lead with greater clarity, effectiveness, and impact.

More information at https://thetnowmethod.com

Episode Summary

Nonprofit leaders often bring extraordinary commitment and heart to their work, but the very traits that help them succeed can also create patterns that undermine their leadership. In this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange, Hugh Ballou talks with Dr. Philip Agrios, self-sabotage expert and creator of The T-NOW Method™, about how self-sabotage can appear in mission-driven leadership—and how recognizing the pattern can open a path toward growth.

Dr. Agrios reframes self-sabotage as a protective response rather than simply a personal flaw. In his framework, people move between two fundamental modes: Protection and Growth. A leader operating in Protection may over-give, struggle to establish boundaries, avoid difficult conversations, become scattered, over-function, withdraw, or hold back valuable ideas. These behaviors may begin with the leader, but when repeated they can create confusion, dependency, weak accountability, friction, and other challenges throughout the organization.

The conversation explores the importance of balance. Dr. Agrios describes how leaders can protect themselves by either over-engaging—forcing, over-communicating, or continually giving—or by disengaging, withdrawing, and turning inward. His T-NOW Method™ is designed to help people identify the underlying trait or pattern that triggers this protective response and consciously shift it toward Growth.

Using a domino analogy, Dr. Agrios explains that the visible problems leaders experience can be downstream effects of one underlying pattern. Rather than continually trying to manage every symptom, he encourages leaders to identify the “first domino.” The same underlying trait, he says, can lead toward either protective behaviors or productive growth depending on how it is engaged.

Hugh and Dr. Agrios also discuss leadership through influence rather than authority. Effective leadership, in Dr. Agrios’s view, is not primarily about telling people what to do; it is about serving and influencing people so they can improve, contribute, and help the organization become more effective. This makes the leader’s own patterns especially important because personal behavior can eventually shape team behavior and organizational culture.

The interview closes with practical ways to interrupt a self-sabotaging reaction. Dr. Agrios suggests noticing discomfort, fear, worry, or a sense of being out of flow as possible warning signs. Instead of immediately reacting, a leader can pause, acknowledge the moment, become curious—“That’s interesting”—and ask how the situation might be beneficial. The goal is not necessarily a dramatic transformation in one step, but a different response that begins moving the leader from Protection toward Growth.

Key Takeaways

• Self-sabotage can function as protection from a level of success or change that feels painful or threatening.
• The same underlying trait can contribute to either protective behavior or growth.
• Over-giving, weak boundaries, scattered action, withdrawal, avoidance, and poor follow-through can be expressions of a protective pattern.
• A leader’s repeated behavior can influence the entire organization, affecting clarity, accountability, performance, and culture.
• Leadership through influence and service can be more effective than relying on positional authority.
• Instead of fighting every visible symptom, leaders can look for the underlying “first domino” that triggers the pattern.
• A simple pause and a curious response can help depersonalize a difficult moment and create room for a different choice.

A Question for Nonprofit Leaders

What if the behavior protecting you from discomfort is also preventing you—and your organization—from reaching the next level of growth?

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou: Greetings! This is the Nonprofit Exchange. I’m your host, Hugh Ballou. Nonprofit leaders can be deeply committed to their missions while unknowingly repeating patterns that undermine their own effectiveness. This conversation explores how self-sabotage can show up as over-giving, avoidance, over-functioning, withdrawal, weak follow-through, and difficulty having necessary conversations. And how a leader’s repeated patterns can eventually influence accountability, performance, and organizational culture. So, Dr. Philip Agrios is a self-sabotage expert, best-selling author, international speaker, and creator of the T-NOW Method, which he will share with you. After more than 30 years of research and work with thousands of people. He developed a counterintuitive premise. The same trait driving a person’s success can also be the trait sabotaging it. Rather than treating it as a trait, or as a flaw to fix. His work focuses on recognizing when it is operating in protection rather than growth. He works with business owners, nonprofit leaders, executive directors, when self-sabotaging patterns have become too costly to ignore, and showing up as over-giving until burnout, avoiding difficult decisions, taking on work that belongs to others, withdrawing from the necessary conversations, or repeatedly failing to follow through. His approach teaches leaders to recognize the pattern as it appears, and shift their response so they can lead and perform at a higher level. So, Dr. Philip, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange, and tell us about this self-sabotage and how we understand why it’s so important.

Dr. Philip Agrios: Hi, Hugh, thank you so much for the honor of, being here. So and, as well for your audience of, nonprofit leaders, They have such a big heart, and a lot of times that heart can, cause them heartache and so many other things, trying their best to help others and not allowing themselves to help themselves. So basically, what I was able to really understand and discover was that self-sabotage doesn’t undermine us. It actually protects us from the very success that we’re trying to achieve. Because on a subconscious level, and sometimes consciously. Attaining that level of success is more painful, so we stay doing the same things over and over again, and never get to that point. And after reviewing and researching and working with so many people, I was able to understand that there is actually a protective sequence that we’re born with. And that sequence is there just to protect us, because as humans, there are only two things we do. We protect. Or we grow. That’s it. So, as we’re going down that protective mechanism, because you might have heard this before, that our primitive brain called the amygdala is always looking to protect us. So, because it’s just waiting for the other shoe to drop and everything else. But what I was able to understand over the 30 years was that the same pattern, when shifted the other way, actually brings us into growth. So that we can start to, perform at the level that we know deep down we’re capable of performing. So, you have to realize there’s a dichotomy of Growth and protection, and depending on what you want at that moment, will determine what you tap into yourself, because they’re both sitting there waiting for you to use.

Hugh Ballou: That’s a reframing, sort of a paradox, as you were. So, looking at nonprofit leaders in this area of self-sabotage, what are some of the common behaviors that you see, and why is this valuable for them to know?

Dr. Philip Agrios: So, there’s a variety of ways that, depending on the sequence or the trait that they’re born with, will cause them to react and act in certain different ways. So, some may be over-giving. They want to give as much as they can to this nonprofit, because it’s such a great thing to, to help others with, but it causes them to get more drained. They don’t have boundaries, they have a hard time saying no. They’re giving, but no one’s giving back, because there’s so use of people just taking advantage of their kindness. Others, are very creative, they want to do this, and they start throwing things, here, let’s do this, let’s do this, and they can be very scattered and chaotic when And they wing things. Instead of sitting there, focusing, and following through, they’ll shift here, and then shift there, and cause a the organization itself to not know what to do, who to go to, and create confusion. Others, have great ideas, but they hold it to themselves. They don’t want to feel stupid, or they don’t want to feel embarrassed, so they pull back a bit. And then two two, three hours later, or two, three days later, they go. I should have said this, right? So and they have a hard time verbally, at that moment to help respect and honor themselves, to show their brilliance and to converse, but they don’t express it, so they hold back and hold it in. So, those kind of those are basically some of the things that they’re doing that is not also causing problems within their own field, but it’s also creating a challenge in the organization itself.

Hugh Ballou: Wow, wow. So, a couple of things come to mind. And talk about the blind spots there that we don’t know it, but also related to that, psychiatrist Murray Bowen, who created Bowen Family Systems. Talks about over-functioning as irresponsible responsibility. I don’t think he wrote on that, but he spoke on that in some of his videos. So, it’s invisible to us, and then the impact of over-functioning, because there’s a reciprocity that your culture underfunctions, right?

Dr. Philip Agrios: Yeah, so you can look at it as two ways of we how we protect. We either overly engage, force things through, overly communicate, just keep on giving, giving, giving, or we Disengage. You know, kind of, like, go within ourselves, give to ourselves, because we’re so exhausted that we have to take for ourselves, we don’t talk, or you get too focused on something, and two days later, you emerge and go, oh, I got that done, but now there’s so much more to do, because they didn’t focus on it in a more evenly way. So it’s either way, if, you know, those of you who are not seeing, I’m putting my hand up, and my other hand is going back and forth over it, like the cow jumping over the moon, right? Because one way could be overly engaging, the other way could be overly disengaging, and depending on the degree of that, let’s say on a scale of 1 to 10, one day you’re a 10, overly engaging, but then you’re maybe a 3 under-engaging, and kind of finding that balance between the two. And what I found was, by using the T-NOW method. It allows the person to immediately start to go into that balance of engaging in a more balanced and more harmonious way of giving and taking more effectively. And the T actually stands for transcend, because when you use the T-NOW method, you actually transcend immediately any adversity, no matter big or small. Because when you do that, you shift it into growth immediately, never fails, and it works 100% of the time.

Hugh Ballou: Tell us about your book. Don’t you have a book by that same name?

Dr. Philip Agrios: The book is called Life’s One Law. I way back when, I was able to discover that there are actually 6 steps that nature uses to come back from her storm. And I realized that blueprint, which I call Nature’s blueprint, is the same blueprint within us that solves any business or personal problems. And then when I took the opposite steps and put them together, it created 3 basic principles Principles of the universe. And I called on the director. The supplier and the communicator, because that’s all that the galaxies and the atoms do. They direct, supply, and communicate. And then I realized those three principles were made up of the same dust and particles as the universe, so I shifted it into the three traits. So, we are made up of a director, a supplier, and a communicator, because that’s all we do. And then when I realized that there was a particular sequence that we’re born with. And that sequence is made up of your superpower. A bridge trait, and then your saboteur, and they work like a seesaw together. That’s when I discovered that this is basically just three things within us driving our success, or driving our failure, or it just is.

Hugh Ballou: I that was very helpful. There’s I want to point out, people that are in the audience, you’re trying to grab all these great gems, don’t worry, there’s going to be a full transcript available on the website for this at the Nonprofit Exchange, so write down ideas to come to you. What are you going to do about it? You’re gonna learn a lot of things, but write down some action items. What are you gonna do about it? So Let’s dig deeper into this protection versus growth. And I find that, there are and the burnout piece of this, too, we’ve sort of hidden around it, but the burnout with nonprofit leaders is about 50%, plus or minus, and it’s huge. And so, we struggle with that. And we bring a lot of it on ourselves. Can you go deeper in this protection versus growth paradigm that you’re talking about?

Dr. Philip Agrios: Yeah, so the question is, is what is the reason why you became a member or a leader of this nonprofit? What is your goal? And what is your desire, right? The why. And a lot of times, our why can fuel us into overreacting, and over-giving, and doing things, and wanting to help so badly that we don’t realize that you’re actually putting a wrench in the machine, right? So, if you’re a leader that’s kind of, you know, giving orders and doing this, or Maybe you tell them to do something, people don’t get it done, then you do it for them. I remember somebody, a leader in the organization was, when the people went home, she would finish their work for them. And I was like, you know, do you understand you’re actually enabling and weakening them? Because when you take something away from somebody, and you have not given them ample time to prove them, you’re actually saying, I don’t trust you. Right? I’ll do it myself. I’ll get it done quicker. You’ve probably heard people do that before, right? So you’re actually causing a subconscious where you don’t trust me, so two things. That person won’t do anything, or they’re now overly give to try to show that leader what they can do. Which creates even more of a dynamic. So, that could be one scenario that the leader creates a protection, and then because of their Willingness of trying to help, it actually backfires and causes a problem within the culture of the organization.

Hugh Ballou: Wow. Those are those are powerful. You know, of course, I’ve never done any of this. Oh, my word. So, as a musical conductor, what I learned from teachers of conducting is what the orchestra or the choir, what they see is what you get. So, go into the impact that we have on the culture, and it becomes evident when any of us that have had children say, where did you learn that? And they go, oh. So, you know, the reflection is the culture of us, so what’s our role in shaping the culture, either good or bad?

Dr. Philip Agrios: The role is to create a harmonious, culture, right? Of everybody has a particular role. Right? One of the things that if a nonprofit doesn’t have an organizational chart, they’re, in my opinion, doomed to fail. Because, number one, people don’t know who to go to In certain situations, right? But when you’re in that role of whether or not a CEO, COO, CFO, and you stay in your lane, then people know where to go. And then from there, how does that C-suite, board, how do they work together harmoniously with each other instead of one doing more than the other, right? So you’ve seen those particular situations, correct?

Hugh Ballou: Yep.

Dr. Philip Agrios: Right? So what happens is it becomes judgmental of, oh, this person’s always doing this, and people talk about the other person’s behind their back and all that, and one of the things I was able to really help with when I go into organizations is show them to stop the judgmental stop them from judgment judging themselves. I can talk. And don’t judge me that I didn’t talk, no. Judging themselves. So, basically, when that person does something that you don’t like. What I found is that that’s your superpower, and it’s not theirs. Well, why can’t you just take a note? Why can’t you just follow through? Or, why can’t you just tell me what’s going on and talk to me, right? Because it’s easier for you than the other person. So we judge that other person. And vice versa. They’re saying the same thing about you that they don’t like. But when they understand each person’s sequence. That judgment turns into compassion. Now they understand why the person’s doing what they’re doing, and then they can help that person according to what they need, not what that person thinks they need, which is really what they need. Then that harmonious, Collaboration comes into play, and now everybody’s working like the orchestra should, instead of the horns coming in at the wrong time, and the strings coming in, sooner than they should have. So, once you understand, it’s like, same thing with a spouse or children. Once you understand the sequences of the people that you love, or your coworkers, or even your business partner, and your thing, you’ll know why they do what they do. They’ll know why you do what you do, and then, therefore, you both can work on each other and help each other in the way you both need to be, supported.

Hugh Ballou: So, we have a lot of assumptions That we inherit, or we carry with us, or we’ve learned wrong, you know, some leadership traits as nonprofit leaders, and it’s more abundant there. I’m thinking of, I’d rather do it myself. And they sort of put it in the context of, I’ve got to be willing to do what I ask other people to do, and I say the word operative word here is willing. And I say, every time you do something that a volunteer could do, you’re robbing them of an opportunity to share their passion in your project. So, talk about that unwillingness, because I think we don’t know how to delegate, and then we don’t know how to correct. And the analogy I give people is, we’re in a rehearsal, and I stop, and I see trumpets that’s too loud. Take it down one dynamic level. I didn’t insult them, they didn’t feel insulted, I was analytical, and I gave them specific directions, then we had another go at it. So, we’re afraid that we’re going to hurt somebody’s feelings, and we often hurt everybody else’s feelings because we didn’t deal with it. So, talk about this dynamic of Our position of authority, and how not to abuse it, but how to use it effectively.

Dr. Philip Agrios: One of the things, depending on the culture, right, depending on who is where and what their positions are, I’ve always always I’ve had employees where I, instead of me just saying, well, you gotta do this, I would say, I’ve noticed something happening, is it okay if I give you some thoughts here? Right? So what are you doing? You’re asking permission to show them what they’re doing. Now, if you’re an authority, of course they’re going to say yes. I’m not gonna say no, get out of my face. Your spouse may, or your kids may. There’s a joke in my house when I go, you know, I have a thought for you, so I’m like, you know, would you like to hear it? Kind of like, I want to say something to you, because you’re going down the damn wrong road, but, you know what? If you’re open to it, great. And if they say no, you go, cool. Then you move on, right? But in this situation, you know, in the hierarchy, of course, they’re going to say, yeah, so what happens is you’re asking permission, you’re so and then you say, what I’ve noticed, not this is what you’re doing wrong, what I’ve noticed was that you’re doing this and this, and in my opinion, it’s not as effective. Are you open to something else that I saw within my own being, and helped so many other people who have done it like you, that could be more efficient, so it saves you more time and frustration? Are you open to that? What are they gonna say? No. So, when you do it that way, and that’s where the ego comes into play, where you’re not you know, remember, you gotta realize we’re humans, we’re equal to each other in that way. However. You know, when people came to me as a doctor, yes, was I above them here? Yeah, because I knew knowledge. Not because I was above them as a human, because I knew I knew more than them. But if I went to them, then they would have more knowledge, and they would be in a hierarchy, correct? So the person who’s in the C-suite is there because they have More knowledge and some more leadership that they can guide others. To bring them up to their level as well. So, just that one approach could help Neutralize any challenges or problems that can cause friction.

Hugh Ballou: That’s so helpful. You know, we, Let me give an analogy. As a conductor, people think, oh, you’re a dictator. You tell everybody what to do. Well, I gotta tell you, I’ve got a whole bunch of union musicians that are pretty cocky, they’re daring me, I got a little white stick. They’re gonna work for 2 hours, they’re gonna leave. I can’t make them do anything. I can, however, influence them. So speak of the power of influence over our perceived power of authority.

Dr. Philip Agrios: Well, the thought process of authority is that I’m going to tell you what to do because I think that’s best. No one likes to be told what to do unless the person is just totally clueless, and they just want to be a follower, and just say, just tell me what to do, and I’m okay with it. Which is fine. Doesn’t mean they’re a horrible person, doesn’t mean they’re weak, whatever. It’s just who they are, and that works best for them. But to influence somebody as a leader, that’s the true, to me, meaning of a leader. The other one is more of a just a person who has an ego that has to do that to feel better at that moment, because maybe they feel lousy, and they start screaming at the people, because, you know, they’re doing the same thing, and I can always show that with my clients, those who are doing that. When you’re upset with somebody, you’re actually doing the same thing as them. That’s why you’re not patient with them, because you’re not patient with yourself. But in that influence as a leader. It’s How can I serve them so they can improve to make the organization improve and become more efficient and scale? Not that I have to lead them and I need the accolades. So, I hope did that answer your question? I might have gone off a little bit.

Hugh Ballou: Those are ways things I never thought about. And so, remind people, there’s a lot of really good things you can get from the transcript, and there’ll be the full recording here. So tell us about the T-NOW. Walk us through the T-NOW method, and what will people learn from your book?

Dr. Philip Agrios: So, the book and the T-NOW Method are different. Back when, I’ve been told I used to need to read it, to write another book, and it will, but not at this moment. Too busy with so many other things. The book back in, I think it was 2018-19 that I wrote it, was basically just to show the discovery I made, to help people to see what was different about it, and near the end talks about, the traits. Now, my programs focus more on the traits and not the, the blueprint itself. So, the analogy I love to give to help people to understand more about this imagine that you see a domino right in front of you, and to the right of you, okay, there is a this domino master set up this beautiful whole thing, right? And you push the domino to the right, and all of a sudden, it goes Right? And then, let’s say balloons are released. Well, what’s the last thing you see? The balloons, right? That’s your imposter syndrome, your anxiety, your PTSD, your overly giving, or not talking, your scatteredness, and everything else that you don’t want that’s not really effective for you. So what’s easier? Hold down all the balloons and stop pushing the one domino. That one domino is that inborn sabotaging trait that creates every negative emotion that you experience. But what you don’t realize is that to the other side is another domino setup. But fireworks are the ones that go off. That’s reaching your goals, and your purpose, and being the performer that you know you can reach. But then you realize when you push this domino to the other side. The fireworks go off. But you don’t realize that the same domino kicks off. Either the red balloons, or the fireworks, which are total opposites. So the balloons is your protective mechanism, and the fireworks is your growth mechanism. And depending on understanding so what the T-NOW method basically does, it helps you to identify that one domino. It helps you identify why you’re pushing it down the road of protection, struggle, self-sabotage, whatever you want to call it. It’s the same thing. And how to, on a conscious level, shift it into the growth mode, and to a point of doing it so many times that now the growth mode is more subconscious than your protective mode. So that’s what, basically, the premise of what I was able to uncover.

Hugh Ballou: I love it, I love it. So, people will find you at your website, so give us what that link is, please.

Dr. Philip Agrios: Yeah, it’s TheT-NOWMethod. Com, TheT-NOWMethod. Com. And when they go there, yes, is self-sabotage becoming too expensive to ignore? And that’s what happens. It causes costs you money, relationships, to love, to so many other different joy. That it is. And then, if they go down, then they can, if they are a team leader, a business owner, or sales professional, executive. Then to keep coming all the way down to the right is a way they can push on that. They can have a little bit more of a 10-minute free training, and then they can have a discovery call. It’s a confidential free discovery call. Or if not, they can go to the other side. It goes into more about the book. And, some other things that, There is an interview with Jack Canfield and me.

Hugh Ballou: Love it, love it, love it. So, let’s have some fun. Let me do a series of rapid-fire questions. Your game?

Dr. Philip Agrios: Okay, alright, fine, let me get myself warmed up. Okay.

Hugh Ballou: Okay, here we go. What’s one warning sign that tells a leader, I’m operating in protection right now?

Dr. Philip Agrios: Being uncomfortable, feeling in fear, feeling worried, anything that causes them to be out of their flow.

Hugh Ballou: What’s one question a leader can ask before reacting to a difficult situation?

Dr. Philip Agrios: How is this a benefit for me at this moment in time?

Hugh Ballou: How can a strength become a weakness without the leader realizing it?

Dr. Philip Agrios: I don’t believe in strengths or weaknesses within us, It’s just the strength is basically how much you use it. And the weakness is how much you don’t use it.

Hugh Ballou: That is so well reframed, I agree with you. And the last one, what’s one action a leader listening today can take immediately to interrupt a self-sabotaging pattern?

Dr. Philip Agrios: First, take a deep breath in and say, it’s okay. Then they can say, well, that’s interesting. And when they say that’s interesting, it neutralizes the situation, it allows them to depersonalize the situation, because majority when we react, majority of times, it’s because we’re taking it personally. And it allows you to pull back and look at it like a movie, that you’re not part of it, it doesn’t affect you, and then you can see it more clearly of, okay, I went into protectiveness because of this, this, and this, and what can I do to offset that? Even 10% to 15% more of it. You don’t have to do 100%. How can I do it, and not better or harder? How can I work harder? How can I work better? Because when you use those words, it’s like going up a hill with a bicycle. If you stop, what happens? It goes back down. Imagine just saying, how can I do this differently? Which just means you’re going down this road, and all I gotta do is make a little left or a little right. It’s so much easier going laterally than up and down.

Hugh Ballou: Philip, I’ve been doing this a long time. I learned things today that I never realized. So, thank you for sharing your wisdom on the Nonprofit Exchange. People, the transcript will be in TheNonprofitExchange. Org, and the link to his website. So, reach out to Philip. There’s so much to learn, so thank you for sharing today on the Nonprofit Exchange.

Dr. Philip Agrios: Thank you.

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