Breaking Barriers: Empowering the Next Generation of Leaders

A lot of success depends on the connections we make. Be the people who connect with others. By fostering these connections, we create opportunities for those that are disadvantaged.

Christine Sakdalan joined Boehringer Ingelheim as the Vice President of Mental Health and will focus on our overall strategy preparing the market, our brands, and Boehringer Ingelheim to enter into this emerging therapeutic area with its diverse Mental Health portfolio. Sh                      e will be part of the Specialty Care Leadership team. Christine comes to us from Otsuka as a senior executive with over 25+ years’ experience across brand marketing, sales, digital health, and market access leadership in the areas of central nervous system, cardiovascular, diabetes, bone health, and medical devices. At Otsuka, she served as the Vice President, Customer Engagement Strategy and Solutions for the Neuroscience portfolio, in the area of Schizophrenia and Major Depressive Disorders (MDD), and led a 700+ Sales team with newly created roles along with Customer Strategy, Regional Marketing, and Regional Operations. Christine has extensive leadership experience in the Mental Health space building teams to prepare for product launches, developing patient-centric engagement strategies and solutions, creating transformative selling models, and conducting market research, sales, and market analytics from her roles at Janssen, Amgen, Novo Nordisk, Novartis, and Pfizer. Christine earned a BS from Rutgers University in management information systems, a certificate in Executive Leadership from The Wharton School, and an Executive Education Program certificate from Stanford University. She is also the CEO and Co-Founder of a nonprofit called Momentum and Value for People of Color, or MVP for short, which helps young people of color in their education, career, and other areas of their lives. Christine and her husband enjoy spending time with their adult children and extended family traveling and going on food adventures. 

Miguel Valentin is an Executive Director with a distinguished career in the nonprofit sector. Having contributed to many organizations over the years, he currently leads Momentum & Value for People of Color (MVP), where his commitment to social equity and transformative leadership shines. At MVP, he drives efforts to create equitable opportunities for youth, leveraging technology to empower communities. His hands-on approach with the board and community members demonstrates his inclusive leadership and operational acuity, hallmarks of his broader passion for social impact. Miguel’s dedication to fostering equity ensures that youth have the tools and support they need to thrive, reinforcing his reputation as a dedicated nonprofit professional. With an innate talent for cultivating educational and technological programs, Miguel has been pivotal in devising initiatives that not only resonate with diverse audiences but also bridge cultural and generational disparities, fostering a more inclusive and connected environment. His tenure at Paramus Public Library was marked by the successful launch of a workshop series that demystified technology for the elderly, strengthening community bonds and digital literacy. Moreover, his foresight in securing the library’s first-ever grant to upgrade technological resources highlights his proactive stance and ability to drive meaningful change.

For more information go to – https://mvpoc.org/about/ 

 

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou:
Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. We help leaders create synergy by defining their vision very clearly and moving toward action. This is a non-private Exchange. We’ve had 410 interviews so far. This was the next one, and we’ve never had one like this. Two wonderful folks here, Miguel Valentin and Christine Sakdalan. It’s too many syllables for me. So let me kick it to you guys. Tell us a little context. Who are you and a little bit about the work that you’re doing and why it’s passion for you.

Christine Sakdalan:
So thank you, Hugh, for having us. My name is Christine Sakdalan, and I’m really happy to be a guest here to talk about our nonprofit, Momentum and Value for People of Color, but really why we’re here, right? Because it’s not just about the organization, but it’s the why. So who am I who I am, I am not just a nonprofit leader I actually have a full-time career I am a pharmaceutical executive, and I’ve been in the healthcare life sciences industry for over 25 plus years. And I’ve been very blessed to have mentorship all throughout my career, starting with my parents, but also have had wonderful leaders who have helped me in my career along the way. But at the same time, I also saw a lot of biases. I saw a lot of discrimination. I saw a lot of inequities that were happening around me and to me. One of the things that I decided back in 2020 along with two other founders was to help young people really with practical advice, and practical work to make sure that they are prepared for their early careers. that we help them perform, that we help them progress in their careers, but also really allow for them to prosper in their lives and in their careers, and hopefully one of these days they will also pay it forward. So that’s one of the reasons why back in 2020 we decided to really establish this non-profit Because part of what my mantra is, is, you know, we have to be able to pay it forward and to leave a legacy in life. So that’s what we’re here to talk about today.

Miguel Valentin:
My name is Miguel. I’m the executive director of MVP. I’ve been with MVP since the beginning of 2023, but my entire career more or less has been in the nonprofit space. And I’ve met so many wonderful people who have wanted to create change in the world to be able to help others and see that and have rippling effects into generations. I too wanted to be one of those people. So my entire career was based on the nonprofit world. I’ve worked in libraries, and I’ve worked in other nonprofits. When I was approached by MVP to work here, it was this problem that we saw that there was just inequality in the workforce, this gap that we wanted to bridge with young people of color. And I felt that that was personal to me and a lot of the people that I grew up with that we had the opportunity to go to college to get an education. But when we left, it wasn’t always as promised, didn’t have as much networking or connections. I was in a lot of student loan debt coming from a low-income family, first generation in college, figuring out how to kind of kickstart my career. So for me, MVP is very personal. The people that we work with, are younger people who have talent, but maybe not connections or the know-how, and we provide that through coaching through workshops through internship opportunities and it’s really that I get to live my life creating this change for people in people. seeing them be able to make a living for themselves, to be able to create families based on the opportunities that we have allowed, we’ve been allowed to give them through our partnerships with other companies. So we’re creating rippling effects, these changes for generations and generations, focusing on that younger generation, just giving them opportunities to showcase their talents and contribute to the country as a whole.

Hugh Ballou:
I love it. Leaders transform. That’s the next book I’m coming out of, number 13. You’re building leaders. I read Richard Rohrer has an epistle daily. He said, that transformed leaders transform leaders. And so the ripple effect, that’s just profound. Somebody believed in me when I was young and had nothing but potential. So realizing the potential someone has and then giving them the guidance to go. And you know what, there’s people that are older that probably need this too, because we don’t really know what we don’t know. So you’ve been in operation for how many years?

Christine Sakdalan:
We established in 2020, then we launched officially in 2021. So you’ve been active for three or four years.

Hugh Ballou:
So talk about, this is really important work, and getting people when they’re young and inspiring them to say, yes, you can do it. That is so awesome. So talk about some, what are some of the impacts. Do you have a couple of stories you can share with us?

Miguel Valentin:
Yeah, of course. I mean, I’ve worked with so many students. And I think one of the biggest things is to be able to connect a student to an internship opportunity. Some of them that come to mind, say this is the first opportunity I’ve ever had to work in some corporate setting. I’ve been in academia my entire life. They’ve been in school for, you know, 20 years or plus. And they leave so inspired. One quote that you know I think about often is, well, the people that I’ve worked with over the summer are just people, and to him, it was so shocking that the corporate had this idea of what work is based on movies and TV shows, but he got to experience it, and the people he was working with. that there’s this common goal that they’re working towards and everyone’s just trying to accomplish something and get things done and progress with each other. And it was so eye-opening for him that he found himself a place in the world where he can contribute and be a part of a larger community. So for me, I find that extremely inspiring when students have those aha moments where, okay, this is the real world outside of schooling, outside of high school or college, and this is how I can be a part of the community or the world, I find that to be motivational for me.

Christine Sakdalan:
Yeah, one recent one for me, there are many stories, Hugh, about these students saying the practical experience, the internships, the resume writing, you know, it’s been, you know, really transformative, right, because nobody really spends the time to help them do those things. But the one thing that was more recent for me that was quite emotional was I’m of Filipino descent, right? So I was born in the Philippines and I migrated to the US when I was about 15, or 16 years old. And I met this Filipino student who said, it’s so inspiring and rewarding to see somebody in a leadership position who looks like me. You know, because sometimes when you don’t see yourself in other leaders and you don’t see that representation, it’s hard for you as a young person to imagine yourself in a higher-level position in an organization. And I think that spoke a lot to me because growing up, like I said, in the pharmaceutical industry and starting out my career, I didn’t see many people that looked like me. Right. But for me, it wasn’t a barrier. It wasn’t something that I saw as a disadvantage only because my parents spoke confidently and they spoke a lot of truth into me. And they’re the type of parents that just encouraged me in anything that I did. And so I never really saw limitations in my life. I always just saw possibilities. But I was very fortunate that I had that growing up. And I can imagine other students not having that. They may not have parents who will encourage them in that way, or they may not have mentors who will speak truth into them and speak the world of possibilities into them. And so that’s what MVP helps with, right? It helps them realize that there are many possibilities. There are many open doors that’s available to them. And that to me is, again, very inspiring and quite impactful.

Hugh Ballou:
That’s awesome. There are limits in organizations, limits in societies, and barriers. What kind of barriers do you see that some of the young folks put on themselves? I mean, that just complicates everything when we have limits that we see that, just like what you talked about, there’s a paradigm shift. So how do you encourage people to let go of some of those self-imposed barriers or limits?

Christine Sakdalan:
Yeah, I think part of it is exposure. When you expose young students to different environments, you know, through internships or through different people and their own experiences, it exposes them and opens up the world to them of the possibilities, right? And sometimes we think, oh, I, you know, I can’t do X, Y, and Z because I didn’t go to school for that. you know, but now if they meet people who are in higher positions in organizations, and they had a very different background to what they’re doing today, right, that in itself is giving them exposure, that there are so many possibilities in any given career. Another thing that potentially can help them not limit themselves is by giving them the opportunities to ask questions, because sometimes in mentorship or coaching relationships, it’s all about asking questions. you know, and sometimes you don’t have that opportunity if you don’t give those opportunities where you can build relationships with people who are experienced in, you know, in different industries, right? So to us, it’s that exposure and that, again, opening the doors will help students not feel like they have limits. I don’t know, Miguel if you have anything else.

Miguel Valentin:
Yeah, yeah. When I think of, you know, a lot of students when they hold themselves backs when they’re there various they place for themselves perceive barriers. Some of the first thing that comes to mind is we’ve been working a lot with students with public speaking, you know, with the interns and otherwise and we’ve had in-person classes both speaking, and it is. one of the most feared things people do public speaking. Even in a podcast like this, I’m sure people become nervous and sweaty. It’s so common to be afraid. And I’ve met students who say public speaking is not for me. I’m an introvert. I’m just not good at it. And I get nervous and I just, I can’t even fathom doing that. And for us, we do believe that communication and public speaking is a part of leadership. To be able to rally the troops, to be able to bring people together, you need to be able to communicate your ideas well and to be inspiring. So the workshops that we do, it’s to equip them. It’s to say, yeah, you may be nervous and afraid, and to be able to encourage them and say, well, use this template, these tools, work at it. Introverts oftentimes are the best public speakers because they work the hardest because they’re so afraid. So encouraging them, giving them the tools, empowering them, helping them to practice, and giving them the platforms to practice their public speaking can really transform their lives. So yeah, they place those barriers on themselves. But once you give them that exposure, like Christine was talking about, and equip them and encourage them, they begin to tear down their own barriers and move forward. And we’re just there to help guide them along the way.

Hugh Ballou:
That’s awesome. I see surveys year after year that the number one fear people have is public speaking. Number two is death. Being a public speaker, I had to pivot from being a conductor with my back to the audience to facing So it’s a shift, but it’s also, you’re so right. It’s, it’s a really important leadership skill. And it really doesn’t matter. I’m obviously a hopelessly extrovert, but that is really not a factor because we might just envision we’re talking to one person. So a little bit, you’ve talked about your mentors. How do you find mentors? How do you qualify them? And how do you match them with the candidates that they’re going to mentor?

Miguel Valentin:
Yeah, we’ve pivoted a little bit in the past, just hearing feedback from students. In the past, what we used to do is we used to have mentors, they used to meet with students once per month for an hour, and it used to be a year-long mentorship. Although there is a lot to be said about this in-depth mentorship process, we heard from the students that they needed more flexibility. We heard from coaches that they need more flexibility. And so we want to meet people where they are. And I don’t know if you ever heard that saying, don’t do anything about me without me. And it’s just about listening to your audience, listening to the people that you’re trying to serve. So we pivoted. And what we have now is called the coaching platform. Anyone who wants to coach, who has experience coaching, or is just a professional looking to give back to the next generation can contact us or go on our website and sign up to be an MVP coach. And what that looks like is you give us your availability. You know, how many hours a week would you like to do for six months or however long? We’ll work out an availability. We’ll put you on the platform, your name, your bio, your title. And then students who are part of the MVP Compass membership who’ve been through a vetting process can click on your profile and immediately schedule a 30-minute quick session with you asking you, how did you become a conductor? How did you start your own podcast or nonprofit? How did you get to where you are today? And how can I follow in those footsteps? Or can you just look over my resume and tell me what’s wrong? Because I have been rejected so many times. So there’s just an opportunity for a connection there. And to be a coach, a lot of times it’s good intentions. Are you willing to help people? Do you have patience? Are you a good teacher? What experience do you bring to the table? And if you find that you have the capacity to give back in that way, we would love to have you on our team.

Christine Sakdalan:
And I think what’s interesting, what Miguel said is we have pivoted, Hugh, because when we first started, we, I mean, obviously, we have a wide network being in, you know, different industries, right, mostly in life sciences, we just leveraged the networks that we had, when we first established this organization, we had a lot of people that we knew who were like-minded, who wanted to, again, make a difference in people’s lives. And so we leveraged people we knew. And that’s how we vetted them, right? We, you know, we made sure that we were also, you know, doing, you know, background checks and things like that, just to be on the safe side. But that’s, that’s, in essence, what we did. But to Miguel’s point, we then pivoted to make sure that it wasn’t these long-term mentorship relationships, because that’s also not so realistic, right? The students are busy, and the professionals we knew are busy. And so, we said, okay, let’s make them more short-term. But for the most part, I would say it is still about people that we know, right between the board members between the three founders, between Miguel, like we all make sure that we bring in the people that we know, but also through social media, right, we amplify our efforts for finding donors, but also finding coaches, you know, we have found many people that way through social media and just through the events that we host. There are many ways to just, again, establish a presence and drive that awareness of our organization and what we’re looking for. But to be honest, I don’t think, and Miguel, correct me if I’m wrong, we are not at a loss for coaches. We have a lot of people that really want to contribute. right, and really want to make a difference. So I don’t know if that’s where we’re lacking, I’ll be very honest, is, you know, finding grants, you know, finding donors that will be long-term donors for us, right, that’s where we’re lacking. It’s not the lack of students wanting to participate, and it’s also not the lack of coaches who want to engage with us. That’s not where we’re lacking. It’s really more, you know, it’s a struggle, you know, for any nonprofit to find donors that, you know, hopefully not only will give us great amounts, but give us great amounts on an ongoing basis, right? That’s really the issue that we deal with. And I’m sure that’s not unique to us.

Hugh Ballou:
No, it’s not. And you’re talking to an audience, so that’s the number one topic that comes up. Even though it’s not the number one topic on the search engines, uniquely enough for us. So, Christine, you spoke a bit about, when we talked about the barriers of not having that sheepskin of a formal degree, a college degree. And from where I sit, some of the wealthiest people on the planet don’t have a college degree. And some of the most successful thought leaders don’t have a college degree. So talk about your target audience. And do they come from colleges or do they come from other places? And why do they find you? Who’s your target? Who do you want to attract the young people that you can influence?

Christine Sakdalan:
Yeah, so our age range is 18 to 29. And, you know, we do want to really focus on people who are in colleges, you know, mainly because if you think about organizations that want interns, you know, to come in to work for them, right there, they often look for college degrees. But we also realize that a degree is not always just enough, right? And that’s what Miguel was talking about, that sometimes the misperception is if you finish college or if you have a degree, then you’ll get a job. It is about your network, right? It is about knowing how to write a resume. It’s also about knowing how to interview well. But quite frankly, once you get that job, you also need to know how to negotiate a salary, right? You can’t just be satisfied with what you’re given. And so for us, that’s who our target audience is. Our target audience is not just college students, but in populations that we believe are underserved. You know, unfortunately, that’s, you know, normally, and again, that’s not about talking about race, but normally, it’s the people of color like myself, you know, people who are, you know, we don’t always get the, you know, the right opportunities. And so we just want to level out the playing field, so to speak. And that’s who our target audience is. Miguel, I don’t know if you want to add to that.

Miguel Valentin:
No, I think that was that was that was perfect. You know, I don’t think I would add is that yeah young people we can start this process at any point. Some people target, you know, high school students or younger giving them exposure and internships. And the reason why we chose this demographic, 18 to 29, is because there isn’t a lot of work being done there. You do so much schooling, and then you’re just kicked into the world and figure it out. And that could be a really tough transition for a lot of students. I was just meeting with one of our MVP fellows who turned into one of our volunteers post-program. She’s writing our newsletter that’s going to come out in a couple of days. And she’s she’s still on track to searching for a job. She may go back to law school and she’s kind of in this limbo. And I ask, you know, how do you feel? And she’s like a little anxious, but I just one day at a time and I’m trying my best. And so it’s not easy for everyone across the board with college degrees, without college degrees. The economy is not ideal for everyone. And so we’re just trying to do our part to kind of make those connections and fill those gaps.

Hugh Ballou:
You know, the big gap I see, and I don’t care if it’s the disabled community or if it’s people or it’s old people. I can say that. You know, we tend to not pay attention to those segments and not think globally. Now, we have diversity. I open my door and the whole world is out there. But are we inclusive? And do we think about, hmm, How do we go there? So how do nonprofits and these people that are listening, they might be clergy, might be nonprofit, it might be a local business leader that sits on a nonprofit board. So how can the nonprofits and communities that listen, how can they step up and do a better job of being inclusive? And be mentors.

Miguel Valentin:
Yeah, I think for me, when I think of people in our sphere that have this question, right, and I would answer this question for some of those. I think that there’s just a little bit of lack of exposure. I think, you know, they need more friends. If it could be as simple as that. I think if you’re looking to be more inclusive, right, put yourself in a position to meet different kinds of people. If we go to the same job, the same church, the same grocery store, the same places, we’re going to see the same people over and over again. And I think putting yourself out there, going to a conference, going to a concert, whatever, to be able to meet people and make yourself open and available to that, I think you’ll find that the world can be a more diverse and inclusive place when we bring in that understanding, being able to meet people, see where they’ve come from, their background. listening to Christine’s story and her Filipino heritage and where she comes from, maybe can then open the door to say, well, I would love Christine to be on my board as a business person or, you know, their connections can be made from these smaller interactions when you start meeting people. So I would encourage people who want more inclusion, that want more diversity to put themselves in positions to meet new people and take the time to listen and understand different cultures and backgrounds.

Christine Sakdalan:
No, that’s a great point. I think the only thing that I would add to that, what Miguel said is, it’s important to have empathy, right? I mean, I think it’s important to what he said, you know, raising your own awareness, educating yourself, being curious, being open, but then you take it a next step further around empathy, right? And understanding how does it feel like to be of this race or of this age group, right? Or of this whatever it is, right? Empathy to me is so important, right? Because if you have that awareness and that sort of understanding and you don’t have empathy, then I don’t think that it’ll drive you to action either, right? And I think that’s why, you know, that empathy is so critical. And it’s not easy, right? I think you have to be very purposeful in making sure that you live a life of empathy, but also you live a life of grace, right? And when you live a life of grace, in my opinion, then you can assume positive intent always, right? You can just be more inclusive in the way that you think. And it’s a constant, it’s a constant evolution of your own self, right? Because I can say, you know, I’m not always empathetic, right? I don’t always give grace where it’s needed. You know, but but sometimes you just have to always remind yourself and forgive yourself to, to make sure that you reroute when you know you’re not in the right lane, so to speak.

Miguel Valentin:
Q, I have a question for you, if I’m allowed. I have a question for you. I know we’ve talked before this, and I would consider us friends at this point. We’ve spoken at least two or three times. And you shared with me that you went from one church to another. You needed this change of scenery. And the second church is completely different than the first. What made you want that change in your life or to be able to explore different cultures?

Hugh Ballou:
I live in a very diverse culture in Virginia. It’s also the highest poverty in Virginia, which was the second wealthiest city in the country before the Civil War. So it’s had a major pivot. So I was on church staff, and I made, I think I told you, I made, like my wife, she’s also a music director and Presbyterian Methodist Church is for me, Methodist for her, making pretty music for mostly white people. And so I got introduced to a bishop of a historically black Pentecostal church that has started its own denomination here, One Way Churches International. And so I went to visit, and every time I went, people just treated me as a person. People showed the love of God, the grace. Christine, that last piece, I was going to tell people, you didn’t get that. You’re listening. Don’t worry. You can go to thenonprivateexchange.org. There’s a transcript. You can see that. Those were very profound words. We forget grace. Another word. So, Miguel, I showed up and I’m not the only white face there, but I’m in the minority. I am the oldest guy there. The median age is 35. But, you know, the only advantage to that is when I drop something, people say, Oh, let me get that for you, sir. So that’s okay. So another word, Christina, when you’re talking about grace, you’re talking about asking questions, curiosity, you know, as we get older, I taught middle school for three years. They’re curious, sixth graders, especially they’re curious. How did we lose that? ask us, you know, I’m curious to know about this, and then listen. So there’s, we got two ears and two eyes and one mouth, and the ratio is off to listening and paying attention with your eyes and your ears. So Miguel, thank you for that. It’s a pivot of mine, and you know, I’m in a place where there are precious human beings that love me, and we represent multiple races. multiple demographics, and the level of professionalism and quality and what they do in graphics and sound and music and whatnot. Ain’t what I grew up with, but man, it is amazing. So I’m on a new journey. It’s in my 70s, which is very meaningful. So Christine, the other side of the equation is we’ve got crystallized intelligence as old people, and we’ve got something to share. and assuming we’ve made the journey and are still curious, or maybe I got a grandchild, and so I have to be curious again, and it’s a great thing. I mean, we’ve come to the end of our time, but we don’t have a hard stop, I find that we respect people’s time and keep this with under half an hour that People listen to it and do something with it. So before we leave I want to share your website Because I know people are going to want to find out more about what you do. It’s mvpoc.org So who wants to tell tell folks? Yeah, well, there’s people listening that aren’t seeing this. Well, what were they on when they went there?

Miguel Valentin:
Yeah on the website We try to make it as simple as possible right when you see it on that top bar It’s you know, how can we help you if you’re a young person? of color, 18 and 29, there are ways that we can help you through our programs, workshops, coaching, and internships. Next to it, it’s How can you help? You can become a coach, you can host interns, you can donate to MVP. And then at the end, you’ll have news and events. Sometimes we do in-person events or we do online workshops. We’ll do newsletters and post them there. So all the information is pretty straightforward. Explore the website, find what’s for you, and share it with other people if other people come to mind. Yeah, and it’s there for you. Is there a contact button? There is a contact button, but if not, you can always contact me directly at Miguel at mvpoc.org.

Hugh Ballou:
I don’t see where there’s a kind of median.

Christine Sakdalan:
Up top, the blue button. Oh, right in front of me. Next to the donate button, Hugh.

Hugh Ballou:
I was talking about listening. I could also pay attention to what you say. So this has been really energizing and informative. So each of you, uh, let’s start with Miguel and then Christine, what do you want to leave people with a challenge or a thought?

Miguel Valentin:
Yeah, I think my, challenge, to listeners, is to look at what you’re doing. Um, maybe a lot of you are too in the weeds, those who work in the nonprofit, those who are working hard to create change, take a step back. reflect on the work that you’re doing, and really reach out to other people, create connections, because sometimes when we’re too in it and we’re burnt out and we’re pushing hard, we run into issues that can easily be solved if we just ask someone else from a different perspective. So really see the other connections that are out there, reach out to other nonprofits, even other businesses that have nothing to do with your nonprofit, see different perspectives, grow your network and community, and things will go a little easier for you.

Christine Sakdalan:
I think for me, as we speak to nonprofit leaders, Hugh, what I would say is don’t be afraid to take risks and invest in people and leaders that will take your nonprofit to the next level. And that’s exactly what we did with Miguel. To be very honest, when we did this, we didn’t have a whole lot of money. We still don’t have a whole lot of money. But, you know, we believe in this work, we believe that the money will come. But what Miguel has done since we brought him on board is really propel the work, really amplify the organization and the impact that we have made. And it is just, I can’t even tell you how grateful we are that we invested in Miguel. because we’ve just taken this to a whole different level, nothing that we would have ever even imagined. And we took a risk, right? And we are going at it by faith that we’re gonna be able to continue to pay Miguel because we need people like him. And I think for nonprofit organizations, sometimes we’re afraid to invest, right? We’re afraid to spend the money that we have, the little money that we have, And that’s my encouragement. And the reason why I encourage people to do that, right, is because if you find the right leader, your work will propel to the next level. The other thing that I will say is, you know, your board is really so critical, right? Your board membership and your nonprofit is so, so critical. Find the right people to surround yourself with. who will not be afraid to roll up their sleeves and really put themselves out there. It is uncomfortable to raise funds. It’s uncomfortable to do the things that you do in a nonprofit. But nothing worthwhile is easy. And that’s what I’m going to end with.

Hugh Ballou:
Nothing worthwhile is easy. Profound words yet again. Christine Sakdalan, Miguel Valentin, thank you so much for being our guest today on the Nonprofit Exchange. Thank you.

Christine Sakdalan:
Thank you.