The Terms and Conditions of Value Based Leadership

How leaders behave becomes organizational culture. Culture is built at the top, it is executed at the bottom. Intentional leaders establish intentional foundations through regular engagement at the bottom. Values such as integrity, ethics and professionalism must be intentionally planned and demonstrated by the leaders at the top for those on the frontline to adopt those behaviors.

Noel Massie began working for UPS part time during college and rose through the ranks to become vice president for UPS’s US Delivery Operations. Before his retirement in 2019, he oversaw 200,000 employees who were led by 12,000 supervisors. In this role, Noel supported and guided the package delivery and logistic services in the United States. He continues to mentor young leaders and supervisors. Noel is currently a member of numerous boards: The Annenberg Foundation, which holds a $1.7 billion endowment and where Noel serves on their investment committee that guides the foundation’s investment strategy; The Los Angeles Urban Leagues Executive Committee, where Noel served as chairmen for nine years; Chapter ONE US, an organization that seeks to enhance elementary school literacy; and the Asian American and Pacific Islander Legal Center. He has received over a dozen awards, including The Peter Drucker School of Management leadership Award, The Whitney M. Young Award, The Admiral Samuel L. Gravely Award, The Civic Leadership Award of Los Angeles, and The Civic Leadership Award of Chicago for serving for five years on the Chicago Workforce Board. He currently mentors young leaders and private organizations on values-based leadership principles. He and his family reside in Oak Park, Illinois, with a secondary residence in Southern California

More at – https://noelmassie.com 

 

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou:
Welcome to the Non-Private Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou. I’m the founder and president of an organization that creates synergy from our vision, so I called it SynerVision Leadership Foundation. I have a special guest today who we’ve just met, but I’m so impressed. Noel Massie, would you tell people a little bit about you and your background and your passion. Our topic today is the terms and conditions of value-based leadership. But tell people about Noel first.

Noel Massie:
Yeah, thanks, Hugh. First of all, I’d like to say that I’m privileged to be on your show today with you and your listeners. And I think we’re going to have a great time over the next few minutes talking about leadership and some of my thoughts on it. started with UPS in the late 70s. I had 42 years with the organization and I grew up in the Bay Area, California, Oakland. I went to San Jose State University and actually the way I ended up in my career at UPS was as a college student, electrical engineering student at San Jose State and at that time I was paying for my tuition The systems we have today didn’t exist so much then. So I had to work my way through college, which I appreciate. And that was instilled in me by my family. My grandfather was a great influence in my life. He was a barber. And actually in my book, I talk about his influence on many, many, many aspects of leadership and values. But that being said, that’s how I started my journey at UPS. And I went into the management ranks as I was about to graduate college in 1980, and the company was privately owned, and that’s important. It was founded in 1907. by a great individual named James E. Casey and he built a privately owned supply chain company unlike any other in the world and it was successful in my view because Jim was a value-based leader. He was a servant leader and that organization went from a bicycle messenger service in 1907 Seattle to 500,000 people today for one reason and one reason alone and that was his expectation around leadership, values. And I’ll talk about that, you know, as we get in our discussion, I won’t do that now. But I went into management ranks in 1980 as a supervisor. And then I became a manager in the mid 80s, with about four or 500 employees under me at the age of 26. Think about that. And then at the age of 30, I became a division mid level manager with about 12 1300 people. And then in the mid 90s, I was transferred to Philadelphia with my wife and two sons, and I became the COO there. And then that took me to 97, where I was promoted to a president’s level position. And my first president’s assignment was Northern Indiana and Illinois, right, Chicago being the anchor. And from Chicago, we went to Virginia for a couple of years. And then we landed back in California, but in the South, Southern California, because Northerners, I said I was from the Bay Area, we see the Southern part of the state in a very different way than most people. But it was a great experience in Southern California. We were there really the longest for about a decade. And then actually at that point in my career, I was thinking about Chapter Two and The CEO of the organization asked if I would not do that, and I became U.S. Operations Vice President for all delivery operations with about 180,000 employees in it or so, and 12 to 20,000 management folks, give or take. And I know that’s a wide gap, but 12,000 are supervisors, the rest are support staff. So as I was exiting the organization. I had actually been thinking about writing the book I wrote for about a decade. And I knew that once I retired, which I did in 2019, that I was going to write a book for leadership, especially leaders in that first five year period. And I say that because during my first five years, they were probably the most formative years of my leadership journey. That’s when you learn and you go through the school of hard knocks. And that’s actually where the biggest derailment component of a leadership journey happens is in that first few years. And so I wanted to write a book to serve that particular group of people as training budgets were being cut, because I was having that issue as well as a lot of my peer president and general managers and other companies, that training budgets were being cut. And there wasn’t a lot of content for newly promoted leaders out there. And so that’s where my book aims, is small business owners, newly promoted leaders, et cetera. But that’s a little bit about who I am. And I currently sit on four nonprofit boards.

Hugh Ballou:
Love it. Love it. Love it. Now, what I know, excuse me to interrupt you, I want to get in a couple of good points here. So this isn’t about, you know, we think about corporate America as a separate thing, but really, The expertise, the experience, and the insights you have are about systems and leadership, the influence of a leader. And you and I talked a little bit before we went live about my background as a conductor. And you can hear an orchestra play a piece of music with one conductor, and you can hear another orchestra play the same piece of music, a different conductor, and they could be amazingly different. One comes alive and one just gets the job done. So the influence of the leader, what I like to say is what we get as conductors is what they see. So the reflection of the culture is the leader is in the culture, really. So you talked a little bit about that, but basically what your book is for those people you mentioned, but I want to suggest it’s also for all these one and a half million plus nonprofit leaders that many are newly promoted. They just don’t feel themselves that way. So talk about the position of the leader and influence and then talk about you know, go to where social entrepreneurs were leading for the first time. So I think this is very relevant for our audience. What do you think?

Noel Massie:
So you struck a couple of really important points just now that individuals in leadership are better served when they understand it. And that is, is that leadership is one thing and one thing alone is the ability to influence an individual or group of people to a desired outcome. Obviously, that desired outcome should be one that’s positive and seeking excellence in some way, shape, or form, whether it’s as a conductor or whether you’re running a tech company. At the end of the day, leadership is not rocket science, but it is a science. People respond to certain things that leaders produce. If you watch coaches, because leadership is coaching and it’s development, is they spend most of their time in the development arena. I mean, once the symphony starts or the game’s being played, they’re going to reflect what you’ve developed them to be. Right? And so leadership is about engaging with individuals under you in a developmental way. And that’s something I learned over many, many years, is that if you are going to influence individuals, then they need to believe that you believe in them. And they need to see that you’re willing to invest in them. And I always would say this to my managers and I had under me CFOs, directors of HR, directors of engineering. I had people that were highly professional individuals. And my job with that group was to coach them. That was my role with them was to be their coach. Even Michael Jordan had a coach. OK, and I would say that to them is that no one is ever above coaching. And when you think you’re above coaching, You need to look in the mirror because the problem is going to be the person looking back at you, telling you, you think you’ve arrived. No one ever arrives in leadership. It just doesn’t happen ever in a career. So feedback is really important, especially for business owners and high level leaders, because, you know, they don’t get a lot of feedback, right? Generally, the feedback they get is situational based on a moment. But leadership is coaching and it’s the ability to influence a group or an individual towards outcomes. And so in my book, I talk a lot about that with the new leader and I do it in a number of dimensions. But the most important thing I want them to understand is their primary role is making people under them better at what it is they do.

Hugh Ballou:
Oh, that’s a soundbite you can write down. So folks, if you think stuff’s going by too fast, do not worry. There’s going to be a full transcript and you can find it at the thenonprivateexchange.org. So this episode will be there by this title. Um, speaking of the book, I bet you have a copy of the book. You can show us.

Noel Massie:
Yes, I do. Actually. Here’s a, here’s a copy of the book. Congrats been promoted your guide for new leaders in their teams.

Hugh Ballou:
So frame that, as I had suggested earlier, frame that. You’ve been on boards. You’ve been president of boards. And you have to work with the executive director, have to. It’s your honor. It’s the routine. The executive director serves at the pleasure of the board. Knowing that information and having all the experience you talked about with a company that’s very focused on development and systems, that’s how they’re so efficient all the time. So position what you talk about in the book for these nonprofit leaders. Why are these messages important? They didn’t just get promoted, but maybe they did. So why are these important to these leaders?

Noel Massie:
The most important thing a leader must understand is where the group of people they are leading are, right? You know, what development level, because all things aren’t created the same. I mean, one board may be very experienced, have a lot of depth in leadership, and another may not so much, a lot of new people, et cetera. So the most important thing is a value-based congruence. must emerge. What is important to us when it comes to our personal values? What matters? And those things can’t be left to chance. Intentional leadership means you have the ability to articulate what’s important to the team or organization, which is why I talk about in the book, a phrase I use throughout the book, and it’s really the foundation, it’s the keystone of the book, is the phrase terms and conditions. And I’ll tell you where that came from. So I had an experience as I was ideating this book over a decade ago that was very negative with regard to an automobile warranty I have, right? And so while I was on the phone, they had denied like three repairs or something. And while I was on the phone talking to the warranty company, I had bought an extended warranty for my vehicle. The guy talking to me says, well, sir, turn to page 11 and look at the bottom. You see the terms and conditions at the bottom? And at that moment, I promptly hung up the phone, okay? And then they called me back and were begging me to renew, and I wasn’t gonna. But the point is, I was already ideating the book on another platform, and I was like, that’s exactly right. I began framing the term inside my content, as well as I was still in my professional role. And I was like, that’s right. Everyone has terms and conditions. Human beings have them. And if I were to say to you or your listeners, I want you to write down five things that are critical in a relationship you have with someone else. What matters? And you know, it’s easy. Most people, I can do this blind. Most people write down respect, trust, listening, loyalty, meaning commitment. Most people write down those things as terms and conditions. And so leaders need to understand that in groups, those exist, right? Those exist. And when you don’t, and they do with individuals as well, even more actually, that those exist. And when you bring someone in your organization, they have terms and conditions. And as with a warranty, if you don’t adhere to those, it won’t be satisfied. If you want a great person working for you, then there are things you must do to get that. And those are the terms and conditions. Employees don’t sell you their dignity. They don’t sell you their respect. It’s not hard. There’s no gray. There’s either respect or disrespect. That’s how the world works. And so the foundation of the book throughout talks about the terms and conditions of value-based leadership. It talks about it in a deep way, because I want stickiness, right? And that’s what I’ve actually gotten from people that have read the book, is when they walk away, they go, the one thing, Noel, that I will never forget is that people have terms and conditions. And as a leader, I must recognize and acknowledge them to build a high-performing team. Exactly. So that’s one of the most important points I’d like your listeners to hear. is that congruence comes from establishing that foundation with your team. And an example of that is In our group, we’re going to have integrity. If it’s not right, we’re not doing it, okay? I just want everybody to understand that’s important to us. We’re going to be ethical, okay? We’re never going to take advantage of any human being, and we’re going to have honorable conduct towards others, which is the definition of ethics. Integrity involves you. Ethic means you include other people. So we’re going to be an ethical group. Listening. And one of the things I talk about in the book, Hugh, is listening a skill. or a value? If you think about that for a minute, what is it? Is it a skill or a value? And the answer to the test is it’s both. We listen to people we value. And I make that point deeply in the book, is that when we don’t value people, and if you’re a leader and you don’t value an employee, there’s going to be a moment where they’re trying to communicate with you and you’re going to miss it. You’re going to miss it. And it’s going to be important. because things are going fast, bombs are going off. So in that particular chapter, I go, hey, listen, as a as a leader, when someone’s saying, hey, Hugh, do you have a minute? There’s a technique I give them stop. Pause and listen, and that means stop, turn the phone off, tell people, excuse me, and you look the person dead square in the eye and go, how can I help you? because one of those times they’re going to tell you something that’s going to dramatically impact your business or your life potentially. So stop, pause and listen is a skill. And that’s something I really pound on in the book about listening being a skill or value. So in our team, we are going to stop, pause and listen when someone is speaking. We’re not going to talk over them. Those are intentional leadership values. And when you build that congruence in your team, and you take leadership learning as a primary focus of who you are, things get way better fast.

Hugh Ballou:
There’s multiple, thank you for that, it’s brilliant. There’s multiple words for time in Greek in our scripture. And chronos is, we’re so focused on the chronological things we gotta do that we forget the kairos moments. And that is a kairos moment where your attention needs to be full on. And one of the most valuable things I learned in coaching school was listening, the pause, look, silence afterwards, the listening, which is the same skill I learned in conducting school. You know, if you’re not actively listening for content, for context, if you’re listening to respond, that’s wrong. That is so helpful. So psychiatrist, Mary Bowen, went from, from his psychiatry business, I’m struggling for the word therapy, to leadership. He has eight concepts of leadership. And he speaks very eloquently about guiding principles. In his world, you’re defining, how do you set a context for principle-based leadership? So the principles are based on the values. integrity. You probably got 10 people when there’s 11 definitions of it. So how do you get people on the same page with the meaning of those values? How do you help them understand it and articulate it to make decisions together?

Noel Massie:
I give some really, I think, powerful examples in the book of real life circumstances that I saw individuals encounter with regard to each one of those values. You know, ethics, integrity, fairness. I talk about that and I tell stories to bring life to the moment so that it helps the reader ride along in the discussion in a way where when they get there, they have the appropriate aha. And I said ethics. is the honorable conduct towards others. That means you know when you’re dishonorable. Everyone does. And the fact of the matter is, there’s no secret to what these behaviors really look like. You know, and in seminars, when I’ve asked young people to raise their hand, to give a definition, who wants to give a definition of integrity, they’ll go moral, character, and so I said, at the end of the day, it means you don’t lie, cheat and steal. Right, ever, right? You don’t deceive people, ever, right? That you have integrity. I said, it’s like, and I give an example of why it matters in leadership, but I actually use structural integrity as an example to this, to be candid, because that’s exactly what it is. And that’s what I found when I was leader of 100 and something thousand people, right? I couldn’t talk to that many people. I had to rely on leaders under me to do it, right? So I had to be able to communicate values in a way that suggested, here’s how we’re going to behave when we had a flood in an area and we couldn’t access it. And there were hospitals and nursing homes that were counting on us to get to their front door because we had all of their supplies and medications. My number one important place to start always was on employee safety. always, is that if it’s not safe, don’t enter the environment. If it’s not appropriate, don’t do it. We’re gonna have integrity with our people. So no, we’re not gonna get it done at all costs, because that means we’re willing to let someone die or get hurt. No, that’s not okay. Okay, we have integrity in what we’re asking people to do. And so I would give them examples. But in the book, I talk about structural integrity. And I give the example of the bridge that collapsed in Minnesota. as well as a condominium that collapsed in Florida. I said, listen, those people were in that condominium. They were asleep and it collapsed. And a bunch of them died. But when when the investigation happened, there were tons of engineers that had signed off on the structural integrity of that building. They said it was OK. All right. So what went on trial wasn’t the building. It was the engineers. Right. Because what they did lacked integrity in saying the building had integrity. When a person’s in a leadership role, your people are trusting that you have the strength of character to always be honest, truthful, and trustworthy with them. Always not when it’s comfortable, not when it’s convenient, but always. So I give some examples of what leadership integrity looks like by using some structural examples, because that’s exactly right. You know, if I were to get on a call with, you know, 3000 managers and go, we got to get this done at all costs. That turns in the stuff, OK, is what happens. OK, but if they hear me say no, We’re going to do everything with safety as the primary objective. Everyone’s going to go home tonight. It came in today. That becomes important. That’s what integrity is. In ethics, I give an example. And actually, when I was a kid, I worked in my grandfather’s barbershop. He is a barber. And I learned a lot in that barbershop, and I was like seven years old, sleeping hair, right? And I grew up, you know, 10, 12, listening to a million stories. I tell this one story when it comes to ethics. that one Saturday I’m sweeping hair and these two guys are sitting on the bench waiting for their hair to be cut, but they’re laughing. They’re friends. And my grandfather, it was a community barbershop, so he knew everyone. That’s how that works, right? So in any event, these two guys are talking. And my grandfather, if nothing, was a very ethical man. You know, I never saw him get angry once. I’m not embellishing that. But I saw him make a point a lot of times, very quietly with people. So these two guys were talking, and one of them goes, whew, I dodged a bullet. Another guy goes, what? What happened? He goes, I sold that Buick, and the engine was about to go out. my mechanic told me in two months, but I got like three grand for that thing. And they were laughing. And my grandfather stopped cutting hair in the middle of cutting hair. And he looks at them and he goes, listen, what you did was wrong. And what comes around goes around. And so that’s not honorable conduct what that guy did. That was unethical, even though it wasn’t illegal, because just because something’s legal doesn’t make it ethical. And that’s an actual chapter component or not a chapter, but it’s a subsection in the book. Just because it’s legal doesn’t make it ethical. And in that case, I give that example as well as a number of others in business that high the point.

Hugh Ballou:
Love it. Love it. No, we could talk all day. This is so much more of your book. We’re just going to give people the tip of the iceberg. So they want to go to noelmassey.com and see about you. So when they get there, they see your smile and face, teach, empower, lead. And they also see, ah, you can get the book here. What else will they, would they find on your website now? Tell people there’s people listening and not watching. So describe what people will see when they get there.

Noel Massie:
Well, you see where it says learn more. There’s some other content. The masterclass I built a nine episode masterclass that the things you’re hearing me talk about right now are in that very vividly. So right. So everything I’m saying here is in the masterclass. I talk about integrity, ethics, trust and methods. Part two of the book is is tactical. It’s the four by five method. So it’s not just conversation. There’s a how to apply these things. that become challenging for new leaders like the four by five method really is a tactic or technique that a leader can use in a hot moment, right? You know, because that’s what happens. Someone’s coming at you. You didn’t see it coming. How do you deescalate it and turn it into a win-win? The four by five method takes you there. It’s a skilled technique. Seven steps of effective training. Listen, today I’m going to teach you how to drive a forklift. The seven steps of effective training is a technique that gives you a very high retention rate. And I learned these things over 30 years from a number of curriculum based in things that I was engaged in. So they’re tactical approaches. for leaders to be able to use, when all of a sudden, they’re asking Bob to drive truck number eight, and Bob goes, no, I’m not doing that. I’m not driving truck number eight, okay? And the leader is 27 and Bob’s 60, right? In an intimidating moment. I want the new leader or the leader to understand, in that moment, just like if you were driving a car and you had been taught how to drive tactically, you know how to swerve and avoid a collision. I teach that in the four by five method. When that moment happens, you know how to grab that moment without a collision. You can see the signs, you know, and I tell leaders that signs show and you see the signs you want to see. But when people have a reaction to anything you say, it’s just like if you were in a car, you know, there’d be hazard signs, stop signs, warning signs. And when you see a hazard sign and you’re driving, you slow down because if you don’t, potential hazard, right? Well, people are the same way. They will be flashing hazard signs. And if you don’t slow down, you’re going to crash. Okay. So I talk about it that way, very tangibly about how to see the signs. And when you see them, what tactic fits the moment?

Hugh Ballou:
So now I’ve been leader for 78 years, most of them actually 70, because I started my work when I was eight. I’ve been working with leaders. I learned something, a lot of things today. Brilliant stuff. You’re very articulate, very precise and inspirational. So we’ve come to the end of this precious time together. What, what one thought, just like a quick thought you want to leave people with today?

Noel Massie:
There’s two. So I’m a cheap. The first one is I want to really emphasize that individuals have terms and conditions. The way you know what those are is you get to know them. You take over a group. It’s got 12 people in it. Here’s what you need to schedule 12 meetings for at least 30 minutes, 12 cups of coffee. And they need to know they matter to you. And you think about when you met your spouse’s parents the first time or you applied for a house, you did everything you could to put your best foot forward. Well, when someone gives you responsibility with a team, you need to put your best foot forward. And they need to know in the introduction, it shouldn’t take six months. It should be immediately. Right. Nice to meet you, Hugh. My role is to help develop you to be the best you can be in our organization. Tell me some of your thoughts. This is your time to talk to me. Right. And then you need to establish the terms and conditions in that moment. Well, Hugh, I appreciate everything you said, but in our group, I just want everyone to know we will have integrity. We will have ethics. I will be fair. And if I’m not, I want to know about it. If you think that for a moment, that’s where you establish that immediately. You don’t wait. And then finally, I will say what that turns into. And I heard this quote from the great founder of UPS, James E. Casey, 40 years ago. And it stuck. And it’s actually had the most influence on my life and my family’s life. And my sons would say this to you. that there’s a basic premise in life. You can’t hope to get more than you give, right? You can’t hope to get more than you give, but people do, right? So if you’re not giving, if you’re not giving to the things that are important to do, then why would you expect something in return? Meaning that if you’re not giving to the people under you in development, why should you expect a return from them? It doesn’t make sense. If you weren’t saving money, Go to a bank and ask them to give you a withdrawal. And then when they go, OK, so how much you got in here? Nothing. Right. You don’t get to have money come out. Right. You can’t hope to give more than you give is a very simple concept that everyone can get their head around and say, if I want to be great at fishing, then what did I invest in doing that? If I want to be great at leadership, it’s not rocket science, but it’s a science. What did I invest in that? How did I invest in that? You should wake up every day saying the people under me, who am I going to develop today and what investment in them am I going to make if I expect them to give effort? I want to leave your listeners with that.

Hugh Ballou:
No, Massey, you are an inspiration. Thank you for an amazing interview today on the nonprofit exchange.

Noel Massie:
Hey, it was my pleasure to be with you. I enjoyed our conversation a lot and, you know, good luck to all your listeners in their leadership journeys.