Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service 

Dr. Keith D. Dorsey a researcher, executive advisor, and founder of Boardroom Journey, dedicated to helping leaders reach the boardroom. His new book, The Boardroom Journey, blends research-driven insights with actionable strategies for leaders to secure their first or next board seat. With over 25 years of corporate leadership experience, Keith has presented to hundreds of organizations and served on corporate, university, municipal, and nonprofit boards. He earned his doctorate in Organizational Change and Leadership from USC and has gained recognition as a 2023 NACD Directorship 100™ honoree. Keith is passionate about helping organizations navigate governance challenges and empowering talented leaders to achieve boardroom success. For free resources and downloads, visit www.boardroomjourney.com/tools

When asked about why people need this information, Dr. Dorsey, he replied, “I want the audience to learn to be intentional about their leadership career and journey to the boardroom by following a three-part framework.”

 

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou

Welcome. This is the Nonprofit Exchange, where we empower leaders with insights that elevate their work, expand their influence, and strengthen the impact of their organizations. Today’s guest is Dr. Keith Dorsey, a leading expert in board governance, leadership readiness, and organizational strategy. Dr. Dorsey’s groundbreaking concepts, such as optimal diversity, the five capitals framework, and the boardroom journey offer powerful lessons, not only for corporate boards, but especially for nonprofit leaders who must navigate the complex relationships engage business leaders, and build board structures that drive mission and sustainability. This conversation will be how nonprofit leaders can apply his teachings to strengthen governance, grow strategic relationships with businesses, and expand their nonprofit’s reach. relevance, and financial resilience. So Keith, your work emphasizes that board service is a journey, not a checklist. How does this apply to nonprofit leaders who are building or developing their boards? And by the way, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange. Thank you.

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

It’s great to be here, and I appreciate this opportunity to meet up with many of your followers. How does it apply to, one more time, if you can ask.

Hugh Ballou

How does it apply to nonprofit leaders who are building and developing their boards?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

You know, the boardroom journey and when you begin to think about what boards need to do differently and what people need to do to get on boards, it comes down to analyzing your actual boards and reflecting on what you’re trying to accomplish with your boards. So, you know, I think about boards and what board members are actually doing on boards in three areas, management, advisory and oversight. And so the management side of it, when you have a fiduciary board, is really talking about the hiring, firing of that CEO, the executive director, make a certain that you surround yourself with the right sort of talent on your board, that you have oversight around the compensation of the people that you’re bringing into your organization. That’s all around the management side, the strategy of it all. Then you have the advisory side and really bringing on board members that can add value via their human capital, via their social capital, and really help the board think outside the box. And then lastly, the oversight side. Most of the time when we talk about boards, we only think about the governance side of it all. And that’s very, very important. But to have the appropriate oversight to make certain that you’re dotting your I’s, crossing your T’s and mitigating your risk. while also looking for ways to disrupt yourself, even as a nonprofit, and look for those blue oceans that make an even bigger difference in the world out there regarding your cause and regarding bringing in the revenue that you would like to bring in in order to do more good in the world. So those three areas, management, advisory, and oversight, I think is germane for us.

Hugh Ballou

I think for the listeners and the viewers, you’re talking about the Blue Ocean Strategy, the book that you launched something where nobody’s ever done anything before. Absolutely. So, building a strong board starts at the beginning. So, what are the typical mistakes that non-profit leaders when they’re recruiting and onboarding board members?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

I guess the most typical is surrounding yourself with just friends, people that you know. And trust is very, very important when it comes to boards. There’s this theory called the uncertainty reduction theory. And a lot of people, when they’re building their board, they want to reduce the level of uncertainty by surrounding yourself with people that you know and trust. But these people that you know and trust, if they don’t have the right human capital, to fill the gaps that you need based on the strategy that you’re going after, you can end up surrounding yourself with a bunch of people and established group think, and you may surround yourself with people that don’t have the experience that you truly need to do the things you’re trying to do from a strategy standpoint.

Hugh Ballou

So it’s like hiring somebody in a way, even though you don’t pay board members, they really should pay, they should support you by their dollars and their time and their talent. So we don’t ask the right questions, do we?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

No, no, because we’re busy people. We already have a remit. We already have a job to do, things that we need to do day in and day out as leaders. And so this board stuff seems like something that’s very important, but ancillary. And so we try to go through it and get through it as quickly as we possibly can. But we really do need to ask the right questions, to peel the onion back, to figure out what value can that person bring. And another point, Hugh, is what got you here may not get you there. And so the value that someone brought 10 years ago when you established the board may not be what you need to move forward. And it’s hard when you surround yourself with some of your best friends and you and everyone’s spouses get along so well. It’s hard to have those tough conversations from time to time with each other to say that I appreciate your service, but where we’re headed next, we need to fill these gaps. And unfortunately, you don’t bring the value that we need to move forward. And that’s very, very difficult. So we have to ask the right questions and have the intestinal fortitude to know when to say goodbye. As an individual board member and as a leader on that board, both directions, we have to know when to say goodbye.

Hugh Ballou

And you know, Keith, in my many years of working inside nonprofits and megachurches, if it’s not working out, and in businesses, they know it, and you know it. And you’re the one that’s the leader. So it’s really having that conversation. And at the end, I think people are relieved. So we worry about hurting their feelings when really, if we’ve discuss it rationally, deal with the facts. I mean, this is a leadership piece, and I know you’re an expert in teaching leadership. So talk about your journey framework and how does that help us go? Suppose we got the right framework with our strategy, we know the right skills that we need, and we’ve found the people with the skills and with the principles and values that we represent. So how does the journey help us go forward?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

Well, If you found the people, the right people, I think it all starts with really understanding your why. And so getting to the crux of it, one, what brings me joy? Why do I want to do it? So what is my why? And then begin to peel into the value system. What values do I bring? And the way that I begin to discover the value is by reflecting and trying to figure out what’s my secret sauce? That I that I truly bring and what are my superpowers that I bring therefore peeling that back another layer when I when these are the reasons why I went when I lose these are the things that typically come up and and why I lose. What are my strengths that I so effortlessly bring to a situation? And what are my weaknesses? And when I feel exhausted, what type of things am I doing that zaps my energy? And when you begin to reflect and to peel back all those answers to those sort of questions, you can then hone in on your sweet spot, you can then communicate your value and make certain that you are doing the due diligence to make certain that that board is the right fit for you and the board is doing the due diligence because they aren’t just going through the motions of replacing the board member that they just lost. they’re actually finding someone that fills the gaps in where they’re going, as opposed to replacing the person’s attributes that they just lost. And so I ask boards to slow it down a little bit and think about where were you, where are you, and where are you trying to go? And just because you’ve done it this way the whole time for many, many years, and you’re really skilled at it, doesn’t mean that that’s what you should be doing this go around. Hit pause and analyze, what’s the outcome that I’m ultimately trying to do? Am I trying to fill a board seat? or am I trying to solve a problem that’s going to help me get to a certain outcome? And hopefully it’s all around strategy when it’s all said and done. This may sound like table stakes, Hugh, but it’s not because we go into autopilot mode and I spend a lot of time trying to get executives and boards to get out of their unconsciously competent head. and intentionally move themselves back a notch to a consciously competent state. Because when we go on autopilot, sometimes we just do things without thinking about it. It’s like driving home on your commute home, and you can’t remember the last 15 minutes of your journey. You’re pulling in your garage. You’re unconsciously competent at driving home, and you’re so dangerous. And I’m trying to challenge boards and executives, whether they’re nonprofit or for profit, to slow down and get conscious and think about things a little differently so that you move out of that dangerous phase.

Hugh Ballou

We’re a little over a third of the way into this interview, and already viewers have gotten tons of value. So folks, if you’re watching or listening, and you didn’t get this all down, don’t fret. At thenonprivateexchange.org, you can find this episode. And Keith, you gave me a new title for this. It’s called Charting an Intentional Path to Corporate Board Service. So you look for that title in all of these episodes, and there’ll be a transcript. So don’t worry. You can go back and get these tips that are so helpful. This is real life knowledge that you can use right now. So Keith, you’ve identified five forms of capital, human, social, cultural, directoral, and commitment capital. Are all of these or are there some of them that are less developed in the corporate non-profit leadership?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

Yes, great question, Hugh. Oftentimes when you’re talking about leadership and you’re talking about board service, the two capitals that come up most often are human capital. And the human capital is really the sum of all your experience, your education, your expertise, the sum of all those things that you’ve accumulated over the years. That’s your human capital. And so we hear so much about that. Your social capital is related to some of your relationships and your networks that you’ve accumulated over the years. And so human and social capital, we hear about all the time when we’re dealing with anything that’s board related. The other three, we don’t hear much about, and it’s around leadership and board work. I want to say first, director capital. Director capital is almost like human capital, but taking it one step further. We’re thinking specifically about the type of board you would like to be on. And really reflect on what, when it comes to your experience and education, what areas are you strong in when it comes to the type of director you want to be in, and what the type of board you want to serve on, and what areas do you have gaps? And for someone that’s strong in sales, they might not have a lot of operations experience. They may not have a lot of profit and loss or P&L experience. And so from a director capital standpoint, if you know that that’s a gap and the type of board you want to serve on really wants that to be a prerequisite, then it’s up to you to do the things you need to do. in your career or via your studies to fill that gap, to satisfy that gap. That’s director capital and an example of that. Then you move into another one that most people don’t think about, and that’s cultural capital. Cultural capital is really thinking about the sum of your experiences that you’ve encountered. And I’m talking about going back to grammar school, Hugh. I’m talking about your life growing up and your family relationships. Who’s that favorite aunt or that favorite uncle that you Emulated either knowingly or unknowingly because you respected them so much who you know what are some of the mistakes that you made and the way you overcame those mistakes obstacles that you ran into in middle school high school and college when you reflect on your. experiences growing up, you’ll see that there were obstacles and objections that you encounter that you found a way to get or go over them, under them, around them by calling up your experiences that made, that created those mental models that you have. And most people don’t think about it or reflect enough about it, then realize how they overcame some really trying things when they were eight years old. and how they went about doing it. And when you’re reflecting, you learn how to call that up at the appropriate times during the difficult challenges of getting on a corporate board. You can call those up or getting a promotion. You can call those things up that you innately did back in the past and intentionally do it now. That’s cultural capital. And the one that from a leadership standpoint and board standpoint that not many people talk about is commitment capital. And we hear a lot from people like Simon Sinek and others that you could do anything you want if you have a strong enough why. And there’s some truth to that. But even sometimes when you have an incredible why out there, you still don’t get the job done. And I believe in setting a goal, reverse engineering it, and then execute to actually hit your goal. But sometimes you hit a roadblock and you can’t figure out why. And that’s when you have to rely on your commitment capital to peel it back and to see exactly what’s causing that roadblock. And then what energy and resources do you need to get past that tiny roadblock that’s there? And that may require some trade-offs that you need to make. And I tell people, if time’s the trade-off, and you and your family, every Wednesday evening, watch NBC, Chicago shows, Chicago Meds, Chicago PD, all the different Chicago shows, you may need to trade that off. And for the next six months, give that up so that you can do the things you need to do from a commitment capital standpoint to get past that roadblock and to go to the next and execute your plan. So those are the five capital. And those three are the difference between getting the job done and not getting the job. The saying there is successful people do what others don’t do. And those other three areas from a point of reflection and then execution are many of the reasons why people don’t get to where they’re trying to get to. So I’ll pause.

Hugh Ballou

One of my favorite quotes, successful people do what other people are not willing to do. That is profound. So you got a book. Would you hold it up for us?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

Absolutely.

Hugh Ballou

This is it. That’s the boardroom journey. So I’m guessing in the book, you also talk about these things, but you also talk about optimal diversity. And how does that relate to nonprofit governance and capacity building for our boards?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

You know, there’s been a lot of conversation, you know, over the past few years, decade really around diversity and equity and inclusion, different things like that. And during the social justice movement from 2020 to 2024, there was even more of and left around diversity, equity, and inclusion. But of late, it’s that the acronym has become a dirty word to a certain degree and for whatever reasons, but the goal was to surround yourself with the people that addressed a demographic diversity or what I would call an observable diversity based on age, gender, ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, different things like that. This observable diversity was something that you heard a lot of push for with this diversity, equity, and inclusion effort. And the obvious there was if you have observable or demographic diversity, you’re automatically going to bring in diversity of thought or cognitive diversity. It’s just inevitable. And so that was the whole goal. But what I have done with optimal diversity is being a little bit more intentional. Optimal diversity is the combination of observable diversity coupled with intentional diversity of thought. The two together will make for optimal diversity. And that intentional diversity of thought is to make certain that regardless of how things look, we are bringing in different perspectives. And it’s the different perspectives that can help us go from here to here and have broader conversations. So optimal diversity is really about being intentional to bring in differing perspectives. And no matter what type of human being you are, and regardless of how your observable diversity appears, No matter who you are, you should be able to reflect on those five capitals and figure out how to differentiate yourself from anyone else. And that is what we are seeking with optimal diversity, is differing perspectives. And unfortunately, there are cons to that. And some of the cons is it may slow your board decisions down. because now you have people asking wider questions. And those additional questions are there to help mitigate risk, to look for those opportunities to disrupt yourself and to seek those blue oceans. Because when you all are coming with the same perspective, that’s when you have that group think. And the group think situations, you can run an effective meeting. It is on time. But when you have people asking different questions, your aperture begins to go like this. And the statement that I like to use there is, just by asking questions, change ensues. And people begin to think and say, why did you ask me that question?

Hugh Ballou

Well, and the other side of that is a musician listening to the answers. Yes, yes. That’s a, in my experience, very underutilized leadership skill. Absolutely. And the concepts that you have outlined, I think are essential. I’ve employed that for many, many years. And it, you know, it might slow us down, but we ought to slow down. We’re trying to go too fast and we’re building a house of cards. And all of those things, you want to have people on your boards that do ask the tough questions.

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

Absolutely. I call this slowing down to get to our desired results faster. So let’s slow down to get to our desired results faster.

Hugh Ballou

So Keith, This is profound. So three times in 10 years, I’ve invited a guest to come back later and do part B. And I like to, in public, invite you. You can say yes or no. But I got like 900 more questions. And we’ve uncovered so many valuable aspects. I’d like to show you a website, show people where they can get your book, so when we come back in a few months and we do part two, we can dig into some of these themes a little further, and people would have the value of having your book. What do you say? I would love that. I would welcome that. All right, let me pull up your website. I went away from it for a minute to start with this, but tell people what the link is for your website. It’s boardroomjourney.com. Real easy. It’s no dashes, just straight up boardroomjourney.com. What will people find when they get there?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

When you get there, it’s going to take you immediately to the homepage, and it will afford you the opportunity to do several things. Get the book, which is the Boardroom Journey book, and that was published by Wiley. And also, you can click on areas if you’re interested in one-on-one coaching. I, you know, I focus on the Boardroom Journey focuses on two charters, one, one-on-one coaching from an accountability partner standpoint or an individual advisory standpoint. And my goal is to meet you where you are and then really help you do the things that you need to do to get different results. It comes down to that commitment capital. And then my other charter is the challenge boards. and really be able to sit down with them and ask them questions to help them figure out where they were, where they are, and where they would like to go and why. And what type of things do we need to do within your board to get different results? And then lastly, if you are ever interested in having me come to your organization and dive into any of these topics, I got a speaker tab as well on the website.

Hugh Ballou

and you have a place to get on your and you have a contact place here you want to contact so i i hope and i’m sure you answer people when they ask you questions so keith this is a wealth of wisdom thank you for being here thank you for agreeing to come back and you and i can can talk about the priorities for that. But we just got acquainted today and I’m just so, so pleased that you’ve offered such wonderful value. What’s a closing thought that you would like to leave people with today?

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

I would like to say when it comes to board work that it’s not an easy journey, but it can be done if you understand what’s important to you. I want people to reflect and figure out what brings them joy. figure out their why, figure out their secret sauce, and figure out their superpowers. Understand the whole area of the many different types of boards that there are out there. And based on your answers to all of those questions, choose a destination and then execute a plan to get to that destination. And that’s what the boardroom journey is all about, to help you do those sort of things.

Hugh Ballou

Words of wisdom to guide your leadership journey for effective boards. Keith, thank you so much for being our guest today and sharing your wisdom on the nonprofit exchange.

Dr. Keith A. Dorsey

Thank you, Hugh. Take care.

#NonprofitLeadership #BoardGovernance #Diversity #Podcast #LeadershipDevelopment