Say It Skillfully: Communication That Strengthens Missions and the People Behind Them

Molly Tschang is the founder and CEO of Abella Consulting and Say It Skillfully® Inc. She empowers senior leadership teams to Win as One—committing to each other’s success and building the chemistry needed to lead powerfully together. With deep experience in over 80 mergers and acquisitions, Molly has guided executives through the complex human side of transformational change and growth. During her tenure at Cisco she served as executive director of the start-up non-profit, NetHope (https://nethope.org/), one of the most meaningful and enriching parts of her career journey. Through her platform, Say It Skillfully, she equips individuals at all levels with the skills to communicate confidently, foster trust, and create cultures where people feel valued and perform at their best. She is also the coauthor—with legendary CEO coach Marshall Goldsmith—of the bestselling new release: Say It Skillfully – Speak Up. Make Your Words Matter. Win Together. While most communication and personal development books preach playing the game so you win, Say It Skillfully shows you how to change the game—so performance improves and everyone wins.

Put the simple, flexible “Me-You-We” framework into action and you’ll make those tough conversations easier—and more human. Here’s a free download for listeners: https://www.sayitskillfully.com/gift

Episode Summary

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou

Howdy, this is Hugh Ballou. Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange, where we explore practical strategies, courageous ideas, and transformational leadership practices that help nonprofit leaders build organizations worthy of their missions. I’m Hugh Ballou, founder of SynerVision Leadership Foundation, host for The Nonprofit Exchange. And, you know, it’s important work that we do because we change people’s lives. Our work is transforming leaders, transforming organizations, transforming people’s lives. Each episode of this is for you, the nonprofit leader, your board, all your stakeholders in your organization. Today, we are focusing on a leadership skill that touches every part of nonprofit life. Communication. Communication shapes trust, culture, collaboration, decision-making, fundraising, board engagement, staff morale, and the ability of people to bring their full gifts to the mission. Our guest Molly Chang brings a powerful message. Effective communication is a team sport, and all of us have the opportunity to use our voices to serve the greater good. Molly Shang is the founder of Abella Consulting and Say It Skillfully, Inc., where she helps senior management and teams win as one. Across more than 80 mergers and acquisitions, she has helped leaders navigate the human aftereffects of major change and build the trust, alignment, and communication needed for people to thrive in complex environments. Through Say It Skillfully, Molly equips professionals at every level to communicate authentically, constructively, and courageously as people can be seen, heard, and understood on the topics that matter the most. The title of today’s episode is, Say It Skillfully, Communication That Strengthens Missions and the People Behind Them. So Molly, welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange. Talk a little bit more about senior leaders and teams through complex change. And what did your experience teach you about the human cost of poor communication?

Molly Tschang

Well, Hugh, thank you very much for being here. Shout out to everyone listening and watching, tuning in, great to be with you. And I hope this will be a very practical and game-changing time that you spend with us. So, you know, I think what I observed is there’s many very smart and they’re experienced and really qualified people who are leading, yet at times they’re not able to say what needs to be said in a way that they’re heard the way they intend and that it actually is received in a positive and productive way. And this basic communication skill can really throw a wrench into just every aspect of work. And I would say that Over decades, what I’ve experienced is many leadership issues really are communication issues in disguise. And so we talked about this before we started recording. Your number one skill for success, and I would say happiness and fulfillment in life, is your communication. And it is the one skill that we really never learn how to do. No one teaches us how to do it. I mean, think about that. You might have sales training, presentation training, negotiation training, but the ability to actually find how does Hugh speak up in a way that’s true to Hugh? How does Molly speak up in a way that’s true to Molly? We’re just kind of left out in the dark. And so before you’re aghast about that, I understand why that is because learning to use your voice is a highly individual and personalized skill. Individual in that each person listening here has your unique voice and you have to find your voice. Molly can’t find it for you. And using your voice is personalized because it’s not a one-size-fits-all, right? What works for me doesn’t work for you, and what works for you doesn’t work for me. And so I think the real opportunity is how do you find your voice, your way to speak up with clarity, with compassion, and with confidence? And having been someone who didn’t speak English until I was five, painfully shy, super bad communicator, very poor communicator. I think I’m just living proof that it’s a learnable skill. So I just want to encourage folks out there. I think you matter. I don’t even know you. I may not meet you. I know you matter. The only way people are going to appreciate how much you can contribute is if you can make your words matter. And that’s what this is all about.

Hugh Ballou

Make your words matter. I can’t miss it on your background. It says say it skillfully and I believe you have a book. You got a copy there. What’s behind that? How did you choose that title?

Molly Tschang

Well, I was talking to a friend and the say it skillfully. I said it at one point. He said wait. There’s something there. And so this whole, say it skillfully, started out as a random, random act. And I have to thank my dear friend and fellow Marshall Goldsmith 100 coach, Bruce Kasanoff, because Bruce is a big social media guy. He’s got almost 900,000 followers. He’s like, Molly, doesn’t matter, post whatever. I mean, I never posted anything in my life. and I posted a 90-second video that was role-playing how a junior person could speak up in a room full of management, which is, of course, the scariest thing ever to do in the world. And I thought 10 people would watch and we’d be done, and it ended up, over time, like 36,000 people watched this bloody video. And then I took over my life because I said every week I started creating a video for people to help them realize that it’s actually easier than you think. And there is a way that you can come across with what you think needs to be said in service to the greater good. Not to make me look amazing like you look bad, but to be able to actually serve the greater good, serve the whole, I call it. And I knew I was on to kind of an unmet need. I mean, it was very clear to me, whether you went to community college or you went to Oxford or fancy graduate school, you did not work so hard to be silent on the sidelines or otherwise mute. You want to contribute. And the only way you contribute is if you speak up. So that idea of just kind of saying, I can be that for people. And people were, I’m telling you, there was a million and a half views of these videos. Over a year, it took over my life. It was a passion project. I was on social media all the time. I am a private person, Hughes. But this was not really the most normal thing for me. But I’m very mission-driven, and I could feel how it could make a real difference for folks. And now, with the Say It Skillfully, we’ve got training program, we’ve got all sorts of resources because I know that when the principals are out in the open with the group, the very next day performance is better. It’s more productive. It’s more rewarding. It’s more respectful. I was telling you I did a talk at Fort Bragg to 500 of the surgical staff, and they’re going through a huge change. And the senior doctor got back to me, said, Molly, we’re going through this like a champ. And I just know, like, it’s because people all realize and have empathy for each other. We really are in it together. And it makes my heart, I mean, it makes me so warm to know that, because that’s what you do. You go to your workplace, you want to bond together, support the greater good, be part of something far bigger than any one person could ever be. I mean, that’s all we want to do at work, right? So I’m on fire about this. I’m really grateful for your support. And I hope everyone listening realizes that each and every person, whether you’re the top dog or whether you’re an individual contributor, you have a chance to really role model this and make a difference.

Hugh Ballou

Love it, love it, love it. We’re on the same page so much. So you talk about communication as a team sport. We explain that and explain why that’s not just a catchphrase. How does it work out in a practical sense?

Molly Tschang

It’s so fundamental, which of course everyone would say work as a team sport, but communication is just that, because effective communication is about what other people hear, not what you think you said. And so that kind of aha moment for people, like, what? I’m like, yes, you may have thought you were very clear. It wasn’t very clear to them. So that idea, it takes all of us to really communicate effectively. And I would just tell you that in organizations that truly put people first, and I know this nonprofit community, you’re all about the human potential. If you truly put people first, speaking up is not optional. It’s not okay to hold back something that could serve the greater good. It is a shared responsibility. In service are better decisions, stronger cultures, and the greater good. And everyone has a voice. The question is how well, how skillfully can they use it? And when people hold back, which I totally understand, you have to think about, well, why is that? And there’s really these three common fears. Often it’s the fear of being wrong, It’s the fear of not fitting in or the fear of offending someone. And so we let that fear, which is an ego thing. I don’t want to look bad. I’m afraid, which I understand. But now you’re cheating the organization because you’re not sharing something that could be helpful. So I want to help people acknowledge the excuses. get in a relationship with them, but overcome them so that you can speak up in a way that best serves the whole. And I’m going to just say, you might think this needs to be said to help the whole. You may be wrong, but your intention is, I think this might be helpful, so let me share. Now, I’m going to share this because you’re stupid and I’m right, right? I mean, I’m being a little bit exaggerating here, but I think that’s a lot of times people Well, what if I’m wrong? Okay. Maybe you’re wrong, but you’re throwing some idea out may actually spur another idea that really brings out the collaborative juices of a group. And so if people are feeling they’re in a safe space and as leaders on this call, that is a big part of your job, which is creating the environment where people can be wrong. And when we’re wrong, what do we say? Oh my gosh, we own. I was wrong. Molly was wrong. Bad Molly. I learned this. I want to let everyone know this is exactly what we want because if we’re able to kind of push it and be wrong in the right ways, that’s how we’re going to do our best work together. So leadership has such a great role in setting the stage and the bar, but I want to empower people all around an organization to realize that you can actually also lead people to a better place.

Hugh Ballou

where you’ve helped us segue to the next topic is creating environments where people feel valued and heard, which you’ve already talked about valuing. So what are some of the things people do to make that environment inclusive and trustworthy or block it? What are both sides? What are some of the problems? What are some of the right ways to do this?

Molly Tschang

Yeah, so I think being transparent, transparency is your friend, that is one of the say it skillfully mottos, because being open about it, you know, means we all see it. And what happens is, I might think that you know, you might think that I know, but if we don’t put it out there, hey, Hugh, do you know that? We don’t have this accurate shared reality. And accurate shared reality is defined as being on the same page about both the objective facts and the human experience, because both really contribute to where we’re at. And if we’re not on the same page, we’re not going to make the best decisions, execute with speed, and get to our greatest outcomes. And the only way a group gets to a shared reality is if everyone feels comfortable sharing their viewpoints. Because I might see something a certain way, because it’s my reality, and someone might see something else. And so the leaders and the people who invite the difference, oh, you see a difference, say more. Not, you must be wrong, right? And trying to prove that I’m right. So creating that space for people to be able to share the different points of view. You may be in a meeting and you’re the leader and you’re noticing no one’s disagreeing. You may say, well, here’s what I want to ask everyone to do. Let’s all argue the other side. I want you to take the other position. Everyone tell me why we would do the other thing. We want to create, build that muscle because oftentimes as a leader, you have to know people want to be right. They want to please you. They really do. And so there is a little bit of trepidation, even if you’ve said, you know, I want to hear the tough news. So as a leader, it’s an ongoing, everyday habit to invite different points of view, to acknowledge something that’s different. When someone comes to you with bad news, the first thing out of your mouth is, oh, thank you so much for sharing that. That might’ve been hard to say. not countering it, or heaven forbid, never saying, who said that? I’ve literally seen senior leaders do that. Someone comes up, obviously the person who thought that wasn’t comfortable coming to you, they come, and then they get their head bit off. And everyone watching, by the way, is going like, note to self, boss doesn’t want to hear it, right? So this is team sport thing, because we all have blind spots, leaders, individual contributors, everyone has blind spots, and we need people to dare to care. to tell us about them because they know that we want to do the right thing. They’re assuming positive intent. They will say, Molly, I know how much you care. I saw something that may not have landed the way you thought. It’s now a good time that I can share it because I know that you want to continue to grow. And I’m going to say, oh my gosh, thank you so much. Say more, right? So that’s this, it’s a habit. And it’s a very big habit in work to us to kind of immediately judge, that’s right, that’s wrong. And just notice yourself. Do I say that a lot? Because when people hear that, they’re thinking, oh, I hope I hit the right answer. So you’re already creating an expectation without being conscious about it. So there’s a lot I think of self-awareness that is obviously I have this three-part framework. The first framework is a part of it is me being in good relationship with myself. And that’s 80% I think of effective communication.

Hugh Ballou

Before we go to the next topic, I want to highlight a couple of things you said earlier on. It’s not what we think we said, it’s what they actually heard. And then you just talked about how we respond to somebody. And you just did a response that wasn’t judgmental in any way, positive or negative, is say, tell me more. So you’re inviting people to talk. And sometimes our responses, like the one you just illustrated, shut down people’s willingness to talk about things. So those are ways for us to to enable the trust for people to really be open to share with us. So let’s talk about one you highlighted. So this is the core of things. When we are part of the problem, how are we part of the problem? You’ve said a little bit already. Say some more.

Molly Tschang

So listen, all of us, you, Molly, everyone listening, at times we’re part of the problem. We’re not as patient. We’re not listening as well. We’re talking too fast. We’re assuming people know things that they don’t know. So we’re not bad people, but there are things going on that are not contributing to a shared understanding and contributing to everyone feeling like they can really speak up because that’s what we want. Everyone normalize that. That’s okay. Say it now. Raise your right hand. At times, I am part of the problem. Okay? You’re only normal. That’s what you are. The opportunity is to be aware of when you’re doing that. And sometimes, as I said, we have blind spots. You need to empower people around you. And the transparency of saying, you know, and you can blame me. I was on this webinar and I realized we have this amazing human genius and we’re not tapping into all of it. Because I know that as I go through meetings, we’re not necessarily hearing from everyone and getting all the different points of view. So I want to make sure that, one, I’m being explicit. I want everyone to feel that they can speak up. And I promise you, if it’s something that you don’t think I want to hear, I’m going to say thank you. Normalize it. Make it safe. But that idea of saying to folks, I’m not asking you to speak. I’m telling you that it’s part of your job. Because as a leader, if everyone else is actually thinking and saying what they think needs to be said, it is so much easier to lead. You’re not here to try to read people’s minds, nor are they trying to read yours. So setting up this expectation of if you see something that can be useful, that can help another person grow, if you see us heading down a track that you’re not quite understanding, I want you to know that part of your job is actually raising it. Now, if you have challenges with that, I’m here to help you. And I just want to point out something, and I don’t want anyone to feel bad about this, but leaders, this is a skill that very few people are formally trained on. Most of the people out there have somehow figured out how you can find your voice. And there are varying stages. We all know there are some very, very senior people. not so skillful, okay? So that’s a bummer because they’re not able to create the space for their teams to speak up. And the double whammy is that then because they’re not really great at it, they can’t coach people up. So then you have this experience in organizations of people in the bowels of the organization thinking, oh, it’s never gonna change. And so that’s where I want to help everyone say it skillfully, because you can speak up with things that you think could be helpful to how the group functions. So you can feel empowered to be part of the solution and to not feel like, oh, I’m going home, so frustrated. So if you’re going home frustrated, which I acknowledge, think about, well, what am I frustrated about? Get in good relationship with that. Consider, how might I be contributing to that? Maybe there’s some way I’m actually contributing to this frustration. And then you say, what could I be doing differently to make it better? And if everyone kind of bites off a bit that they can chew and takes a step forward, I would argue we can make a lot of forward progress.

Hugh Ballou

So a couple of things here. the words are important, but they’re just a small fraction. Like I’ve read 7% of communication. And in my former profession as a musical conductor, there’s very, very few words. So we communicate with our face, like we communicate many other ways. So that’s so important. So talk about that. And then the other side of delivering is receiving. And we sometimes are not very good at listening with intent. So talk about both of those, the nonverbal signals we’re communicating, and are we truly listening?

Molly Tschang

Yeah, so the nonverbal is so great, and we’ll get to the framework, but the three steps are the me, the you, and the we. In the me part, how am I showing up? And I would offer to everyone out there, you set the stage for success in a conversation before you utter a single word. and the energy that you show up with, that you exude, is what people will feel before you open your mouth. So if you’re tired or you’re bored, right? You’re angry or annoyed, and those may be very legitimate. Your opportunity is to say, if I show up that way, is that helpful? You may be legitimately annoyed. The dog peed on the carpet. I’m so annoyed. We’re crazy. But if you bring that annoyance into this call with people, is that going to really serve the purpose of that meeting? And so that ability, and this is not easy, folks, when we maybe don’t have enough rest, haven’t done all the self-care, to really exhale the negative energy or emotion that’s not going to serve the work. And think about, okay, I need to be inspiring. I need to be patient. I need to be compassionate. Maybe you do need to show disappointment. Maybe there needs to be a bit of frustration or anger that comes out. But the point is to be intentional with how you show up in service to the work and the team. And so that nonverbal is big. When people have worked with me for a bit, they’ll say, you know what? Yes, it’s important to have plus or minus the reasonable words and how you say them matters. But what matters the absolute most is my intention coming through of being a partner, of caring, of wanting to help, of not judging, of trying to help lift someone up, right? And if we come forth with that, people feel that. They’re like, okay, this is not, an animosity or, you know, kind of contentious, it’s a way for my, let’s say, my supervisor to come and give me some feed forward so that I can be better, right? So I think that energy part is my number one thing. And for so many leaders, you know, you have your hand like this and people think something’s going wrong with the enterprise. They do. They don’t realize your car battery died, okay? They just don’t know that. So that’s the showtime part of being a leader. People are watching you. And the second part was listening, receiving. And so if we’re actually not worried about what we’re gonna say, and we’re present with the person, and we can take a moment to put ourselves in their shoes. So let’s just say it is a subordinate. So you gotta say, anytime a subordinate’s coming up to a senior, that’s, you know, by just structure, it’s not necessarily the easiest thing. So the ability to have empathy for the person, to assume positive intent that, you know, they’re here to try to help things be better. Maybe they don’t say it so skillfully. Okay, fine. But they’re coming here with a positive reason. And therefore, out of respect, I really want to hear that. And I don’t want to jump ahead and I don’t want to put words in their mouth. And I’m guilty of this all the time because my brain runs fast and I kind of spew out. Okay? So you bite your tongue until it bleeds or whatever you need to do. Clench your jaw so that you listen intently. And then I think also empowering folks to say, hey, there’s a bad habit I have. So if I do it, you are fully licensed to get a dollar from me. I don’t care what it is, right? But we want to enroll each other in each other’s growth. And so that can be a fun way also to have your team bought into any changes that you want to be making or vice versa for your team members.

Hugh Ballou

I want to come back and talk about some, how do we apply some of these skills? And I’m going to start right there, you know, separating critical and analytical and asking for permission for feedback. But I want to show your website first. And what is the link for your website so people can know how to get there?

Molly Tschang

Sayitskillfully.com, all one word.

Hugh Ballou

I’m going there. So if you’re watching, you can see it, but if you’re on audio podcast, Molly, what will they find when they go to sayitskillfully.com?

Molly Tschang

So we have all these resources and I created this hopefully one-stop shop. You know, I want to meet people where they are. Some of you listening are like, she’s full of it. There’s no way that I could say X. Okay, you may be right. I want to offer that maybe there is a way and I want to help you to find it if you think what needs to be said could really be in service to the whole. And so I think, you know, Hugh, we talked about this. I think most people would raise their hand and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could be better at communicating. I want to create a real impetus for people to get better. And that is that you are part of the problem. At times, you are part of the problem. And it’s really scary when you don’t know it. And for leaders out there, it’s oftentimes not easy for people to highlight some of the things that they would love for you to do a little bit differently. So creating that dynamic, that trust, that mutual accountability to each other, that’s all the resources. The videos are there to help you see that it can be done. People say, I can’t be done. I’m like, then they listen. And they’re like, That sounded pretty easy. It is way easier than people think. So the videos are there, the podcast link, the book, it’s all there. Of course, I have a training course.

Hugh Ballou

Great, great. That’s a lot of resources, and you have a free gift, and I’ll be on the posting page for this on the nonprofitexchange.org. So, tools. And I find it even, especially power leaders, to say, are you open to some comments? Are you open to my thoughts? And then putting it in the framework, I find it helpful. I’m going to get your response of, there’s critical and there’s analytical. And so how can they receive it better if it’s analytical and critical? Give me some feedback on that.

Molly Tschang

So you’re way more advanced. I would say that’s great. That’s a lot of thinking. So I actually take it even a step sooner, because this framework is very simple. I said me, you, and way. And the me part is, what is my relationship with X, whether it’s analytical or critical? Oh, I can see how they’ve messed up. They’re screwing it all up. And then you say, look, have you ever messed up? Have you ever screwed up? So think about what’s going on here in my relationship with the issue. And then what do I want to have happen? It’s like, well, I want to help them be better. Okay, so now you have a real purpose. You’re not here to, I’m trying to speak up till I feel bad and look stupid. No, I’m trying to speak up because I want to help them do better because it’s also going to help the team. It’s going to help the organization. Like it’s a win-win. So that’s the me part of really getting whole with what’s going on. Don’t make yourself wrong or bad, but realize then you can be intentional with, okay, what do I want to have happen in this conversation? I want them to know that I’m in their camp. and I’m helping them. And for me to show up that way, I want to show up with heart and caring. Okay, great. Done. Now you is, what’s going on over there? They’re working their butt off. They’re trying hard. They’re not trying to screw up, most likely. So they may be very unaware this is even a problem. Potentially. So he’s, okay, that’s what’s going on. And then the we is what’s in service to the whole or a whole group. How do we hear all voices? So this kind of flow through, I’m thinking about this all day long. And that enables you to construct a way that says, hey, I’m here to be of support. I’m having a sense of what it’s like for you. You’re engaging back and forth. Oftentimes when people have feedback, they just, it’s like a fire hose. And people are like, they get hit. They’re being hit by a fire hose of stuff. Instead of saying, hey, whether it’s critical or it’s analytical, hey, I’ve noticed something that I think could be something that we could really help amp up how you’re supporting. Now a good time to talk about it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yesterday I saw this. Do you recall? See how we’re going back and forth volleying the team sport? You’re engaging this person in the journey. You’re not just downloading, well, you do this and then you do that and then they all got mad and you’re just, boom. It’s a lot to process, but it takes that ability to feel like, okay, I want to bring this person along. And then, well, so if you were another person and you said that, what do you think, what do you think they felt? Because we’re all in our own reality here. So if you can ask a question and literally get someone else to think, gee, I wonder what it was like over there. You know, are those marketing people all dopey and annoying and trying to make my life miserable? Probably not. Okay. So, but that’s kind of the energy oftentimes between departments. Why do the finance people do that? It’s so annoying, right? And so helping people appreciate what it’s like in the other lands, I call that, of the group, this is how we can really create this connection. Because when we connect as human beings, it opens the door to effective communication. And I know all you nonprofit people out there are very good at that.

Hugh Ballou

Yeah, just use these skills. Molly, thank you for sharing your wisdom today. You’ve packed a lot of useful data in the 25, 26 minutes of this short interview. Look at sayitskillfully.com. Look in her resources, a lot of free stuff. And you can wait to do something or you can choose to do it now. So, you can make a difference by acting now. Molly, thank you so much for being our guest today. I live in this world. I learned a lot of useful stuff today. So, thank you so much for being our guest today on the Nonprofit Exchange.

Molly Tschang

Really, it’s been my pleasure. Sayaskillfully.com slash gift, folks. And there’s a free download of my Me, You, We framework for you. And I hope you put it to use. And if there’s any way I can be of service, do not hesitate to reach out.

Hugh Ballou

That’s great. Thank you so much.