Fostering Connection: Lead with Bempathy® in a Diverse World

Fostering Connection: Lead with Bempathy® in a Diverse World

Jill Robin Payne, MA, LPC-S, LCDC, is a seasoned psychotherapist with over 40 years of experience, known for her innovative Bempathy® method, which blends banter and empathy to foster deeper connections. Certified in Equine-Assisted Psychotherapy and holding advanced degrees in psychology, Jill has been featured on national and local media, offering expert commentary on social psychology and current events. A published author, motivational speaker, and former adjunct professor, she has presented at major symposiums and health organizations, empowering others through mental health advocacy. Jill resides in Houston, Texas, where she maintains a private practice.

The three pillars of Bempathy®—clarity, connectedness, and compassion—are essential for effective communication and relationship-building. Here’s how each pillar contributes to meaningful social interactions:

1. Clarity: Without clear communication, messages can become muddled, leading to misunderstandings and frustration. Clarity ensures that your intentions and ideas are conveyed effectively, allowing for open dialogue and mutual understanding. When people know what to expect, it fosters trust and confidence in relationships.

2. Connectedness: This pillar emphasizes the importance of building relationships through shared experiences and understanding. Connectedness helps create a sense of belonging and community, making it easier for individuals to engage with one another. When people feel connected, they are more likely to support and collaborate, enhancing social cohesion.

3. Compassion: Compassion is the heart of meaningful interactions. It encourages individuals to consider the feelings and perspectives of others, promoting empathy and understanding. When compassion is at the forefront, people are more willing to engage in difficult conversations, resolve conflicts, and support one another. Without these three pillars, the foundation of effective communication crumbles, leading to confusion and disconnection. When nonprofit leaders and clergy prioritize clarity, connectedness, and compassion in their interactions, they not only strengthen their relationships but also create a more supportive and inclusive environment for their communities. Ultimately, these pillars are vital for fostering deeper connections, empowering individuals, and achieving a greater collective impact.

Bempathy® is bantering with empathy a reciprocal communication methodology to increase connectedness in a society that has diversity. It is more than just a communication method, it’s a movement aimed at reshaping the way people interact with one another in personal, professional, and social spaces. Unlike traditional communication methods, Bempathy uniquely combines banter and empathy to help people let their guard down, see multiple perspectives, and build trust. The organization exists to fill the gap of disconnected communication in modern society, offering a way for people to feel seen, heard and valued essential qualities for leaders and clergy seeking to create inclusive, supportive communities. To help people relate and have fun learning this method there are delightful cartoon characters that represent the 3 personalities in this world, a leader, follower, and compromiser. If you are an instigator, you are a negative leader. They are Beacon, the beacon of light that enlightens his fraternal twin sister who is the follower, and then their faithful dog Bow who helps tie everything together and make sense of things, seeing another perspective.

More at – https://jillrobinpayne.com/ 

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou:
Welcome to this episode of The Nonprofit Exchange. Oh, wow We have a good time every week and we talk to some great people today is no exception Uh, my guest today is Jill Robin Payne and her topic Is a fascinating topic. It’s fostering connection lead with empathy in a diverse world. So, Jill, welcome to The Nonprofit Exchange. Spend a minute, tell people about you and your background and what’s this empathy thing.

Jill Robin Payne:
Well, first, thank you, Hugh, for having me on. And I loved our little chit-chat. In the beginning, we were doing Bempathy. So a little bit about me. I’m an oldie but goodie. Oh, I said but. I’m an oldie and goodie. And I’ve been around for a good 40 years working in the mental health field. I started as a recreational therapist teaching people how to play. and then went out in the world and did that for a while and decided I needed to hone in a little bit more. I got my degree in clinical counseling psychology, and then I honed in a little bit more. I got my license as an LPC. And then I said, for the heck of it, I’m going to take a chemical dependency licensure because I work with many different people. And I say something, everything is relational. So if you drink, if you talk, if you eat, if you have other people in your life, that all affects your relationships. And so that’s how it came to be. I also have a brother who has a mental illness. He has paranoid schizophrenia. So I’ve always been in the field, even when I was an infant.

Hugh Ballou:
My goodness, you’ve prepared for this for a long time, all your life.

Jill Robin Payne:
A lot of time, yes.

Hugh Ballou:
And you have a joyful spirit about you. So we referred to BEMPATHY. Say more about BEMPATHY. And you’ve got books on the topic, don’t you?

Jill Robin Payne:
I do. I have three books out there on Amazon. I even have one that is on audio, The Meeting People, It’s Not a Game. And that is all about meeting people. And it’s not a game. It’s supply and demand. And we all, right? So if I have a bunch of cheesecake, I’m not going to want the cheesecake as much. So it’s really simple. I like to simplify things. So people make relationships more complicated. So my empathy simplifies everything. And it means banter with empathy. So empathy fluctuates. Matter of fact, it’s on the rise. Did you know that? It’s on the rise. And it’s not just empathy is not enough. because if I empathize, let’s say in politics, which we don’t want to talk about, if I empathize with one team in politics, I’m going to be in that group, and then I’m not going to like the out-group. So we need to learn how to banter, which is chit-chat, finding a little humor, with empathy. And then you combine that, and then you can build compassion. And that’s really what my empathy is about, taking a step back and seeing the big picture. There you go.

Hugh Ballou:
Wow. That’s a whole lot of stuff. And so show you have a book there to show us. You’ve, you’ve recently changed your cover, I guess.

Jill Robin Payne:
So that was my first book. And may I show it? This cover no longer exists. The reason I want to show it is because I came up with Vempathy. I wanted to do something to get people to empathize more and get along and get connected because I was watching in my practice of 30-something-plus years, people were getting more disconnected, causing them to be depressed and anxious. So I was thinking, what could I do with empathy? We need to make it easier to talk. And I was thinking of schmoozing, but someone came up with such empathy. So then I said, let’s banter. And that’s how I came up with my Bempathy, banter with empathy, Bempathy. And I wanted characters to go along with it. So of course, they have to rhyme with Bempathy, right? So we have Beacon, Brighton, and Bow. Can you see them? Can you see that? Okay. Cause you need to see them. I’ll describe them. You’ve got, Beacon is the boy and he’s- Hold it a little higher.

Hugh Ballou:
Hold it a little higher. Yeah, there you go. Okay.

Jill Robin Payne:
Okay. This is Beacon. He is the boy and, or he is the brother. And then you have Brighton, which is the sister and Beacon’s a minute older and he is the beacon of light and he looks like a lighthouse. And so he helps guide and enlighten Brighton. And then you have the little dog, which is Bo, which helps tie everything together and helps everything make sense. So you have a leader, a follower, and a compromiser. And that’s all the personalities you have in the world. You’ve got if you have an instigator, they’re a leader, maybe not be the. a positive leader and so I have that. They are in some of my books and people follow them in the books so that they can relate with them and it makes the different techniques easier to understand. So they sort of follow the characters.

Hugh Ballou:
And we work with a whole lot of leaders, business leaders, non-profit leaders, and board members. And it’s interesting how people don’t really realize that relationship is the basis of everything. Leadership is the basis of fundraising. It’s our sales. It’s the basis for communications. And so being in a relationship isn’t just a slam dunk for everybody. We all have different nuances. So this is great to think about. And I go to networking meetings and, you know, people are talking at you. Yes. So we try to model something different. So what’s the remedy? We want to meet people and we want to connect with people, but we don’t want to tell them everything about what we do without listening. So how would Vipathy help us when we’re trying to connect with a new network?

Jill Robin Payne:
So that’s what I love about mine. I just had a couple yesterday and I use a lot of analogies. So I listened to it just like I looked you up before I came on the show so I could find some connection even before we started talking. And that’s what people need to start doing. Stop thinking so much of yourself yet think of yourself. So it’s sort of a conundrum because you need to know what you want. You also need to know who you are dealing with and know that It’s a mindset. Empathy is a mindset, okay, Hugh? So I realize everyone in the world is different. Men and women, doesn’t matter if you’re a different sex or your sex is either way. Everyone has a different brain, different retina, different fingerprints, different language. And we need to listen more. And then we listen, You were a conductor, so you listen to your orchestra, you listen to what is soft, what is loud, the rhythm. It’s the same with speech and when you’re communicating. So we need to think about what are we communicating. So for instance, I have red, so that’s communicating power, liveliness. And exactly. And with a jacket. So we need to think of what are we communicating and then what are they communicating even before they open their mouths. So you need to take a step back. That’s the big thing. And I have that in my books. You take a step back. So situation, you take a step back if there’s a situation and you either emotionally or physically take the step back or both. And then you stabilize and you go back to the situation. It’s really easy.

Hugh Ballou:
People may be watching or listening to this episode years from now. We’re toward the end of 2024, October, and the world is very anxious. The world is very divided. So there’s a whole reticence in connecting. So what you’re offering people is a whole new way of thinking about conversations and about communicating, isn’t it?

Jill Robin Payne:
Right, yeah. Because in our society, and this isn’t everyone, because come on, Hugh, you and I are having a great time talking. And there are a lot of people that talk just like you and I. There also are some people who are looking at black-and-white thinking, which is what you talked about. And it’s all or nothing. I’m right, you’re wrong. And so we need to know that there are many different perceptions of different things. And so that’s one thing to look at. And also, like I said, to step back and look at the big picture and what we want out of the situation. I love to give this analogy. So when you go to buy a car and the car dealer is selling, the salesman selling you something, you want him to believe that he’s winning. So he’ll give you a good deal. He wants to believe you’re winning. So you’ll come back and buy more from him. And that’s the way I look at situations. We need to remember that there are exceptions to the rules and we’re not going to get along with everybody and everybody doesn’t get along with us and it’s OK.

Hugh Ballou:
It’s okay. Whoever made up the rule, we had to all be on the same page anyway. You know, I had referenced Richard Rohr, author, and Franciscan thought leader, and his non-dualistic thinking. Once you can get away from that dualistic thinking, it’s a pivot. So, you’re a healthcare professional. You have many certifications behind your name. So, you’re in a business. What is the business about? What do you do differently than other people who are in similar businesses?

Jill Robin Payne:
So I’ve always been different. I like to say that I’m not, there’s a square and I’m not in the box. I’m not out of the box. I’m right on the edge so that I can see both ways or many different ways. And I think people need to be that way. I, myself, I agree with you. I love hanging with people who are different because I learned so much from everybody. And so it is a mindset. If I believe I’m going to have a great time, I believe I was going to have a great time with you. And therefore, we got on here. You said it’s just going to be chitchat and we’re going to be informative and blah, blah, blah. And I knew that I would have a good time. So if we put that mindset in, then we’re not going to focus on our zits. And I have that in my book. I know zits are ugly. So if I had a zit, if I had a zit right here, I mean, they are really ugly. In high school, I couldn’t stand them. Anyway, so if I had a zit right here to you and I said, Hugh, please don’t look at my zit. Don’t look at my zit. Even your people that are just listening, not seeing me, if I kept saying zit, they’re going to think zit, zit, zit. If I just said, oh, I have a zit, and then I go on to talk about you, Hugh, and how wonderful you look, love your jacket, blah, blah, blah, we’re going to start focusing all of the positive. And that’s what I say is bempathy. You have zits. Let someone else handle it, or you can handle it. Do not focus on it. And focus on all the positives. The more positives you have in your life, there’s only 24-7 in the day. There are fewer negatives. It’s common sense.

Hugh Ballou:
So if you’re watching or listening to this episode, nonprivateexchange.org, and this stuff’s going by too fast for you, do not. There’s a, there’s going to be a transcript on the webpage. So you’ll, you’ll find the transcript and you get these great sound bites. And I promise people, this would be a unique interview. Nobody in 412 interviews has talked about zits. So this is like. So, all right, you are, you are unique and you probably have unique results. So talk about the other side. I teach non-private leaders to focus on what’s the impact of our work. That’s what attracts the supporters. So talk about the results of your work, the impact you’ve had on others’ lives.

Jill Robin Payne:
So hopefully positive. So I have had a positive impact because I believe in humans. And so when you come to see me, I believe in you. I also like you to do the work. So I give homework. And so we are working as a team. Sometimes people won’t do their homework, which is fine. They put it in file 13, which a lot of young people don’t know that’s the trash can. And it doesn’t matter. It gets people to think about things. So we work together to reach their dreams. And one, people come to me to find out what their dreams are. They may be giving out mixed messages, things like that. And I am so successful that when I wrote my Meeting People, It’s Not a Game, I was single for 24 years. I was a single mom. And so I was married before. And I said, gosh, all my clients are finding their person, whoever it is, their match. I said, and I’m sitting here for 24 years helping everybody. And what about me? I said, you know what? I think I’m going to read my doggone book. So I read my book and I’m married for 10 years as of last Sunday. And I would not, phew, I would not have looked at him if it weren’t for my book. And that is the truth. You can ask him. His name is Byron Barnes. Call him up and he will tell you the truth. Matter of fact, we went out three times before I realized that he was more significant. And yeah, so there you go. So that’s that’s proof that, yes, my my stuff really works, even for me.

Hugh Ballou:
And so even one more reason to look at this methodology and to get Jill’s book. Who would have guessed? Who would have guessed that was the case? So you’re in the we’re both in the transformation business. Helping people transform their thinking, really transforms other things. It starts with us, doesn’t it?

Jill Robin Payne:
Yes, it does. It does. Matter of fact, even if you saying that, may I tell another story? Just a little quick one. So during COVID, all of the therapists were busy and we did not want to turn down people because it was so, I even got the injections and didn’t want to do it because I wanted to help people. I have goosebumps. So I was just inundated with people and I’m very empathetic, probably more than a lot of people. Women are usually more empathetic than men. And so I was sitting there one day with one of my regulars and I just sympathized. I did not empathize. And it was very much a disconnect. I felt very bad after that session. I realized I needed to take more time for myself and get myself together because it takes a lot of energy to empathize. Sympathy is easy. I feel for you. Empathy is when you’re really with that person. Just like you said, people are speaking at. I think people are more sympathetic and faking empathy where they can disconnect more easily. If you empathize with somebody, usually you are more connected or you are more connected and you cannot be compassionate if you don’t have empathy. Now, you can be empathetic and not compassionate because compassion is an act. So anyway, you can learn to do this.

Hugh Ballou:
There are many nuances to this. I’m just discovering this. So, um, you’ve got a new cover for your book and it’s, has it been reissued?

Jill Robin Payne:
I want to show them. Well, this is the new cover of that one. This is the newest book. This is the newest book, which is the third side of the coin, which is really hard to see. And if anybody gets anything today, let’s start looking at the third side of the coin.

Hugh Ballou:
Be sure I get images of those books. I’ll put them on the web page for this interview. Because we teach that leaders are readers. And not every reader is a leader, but good leaders are readers. And we want to read different kinds of literature. And so you said your books are available on Amazon. Right. Well, let’s talk about you. You have this great work. So who do you work with? Who needs you? Who’s your target audience?

Jill Robin Payne:
My target audience is Millennials and Gen Zs. I do not do the Alpha yet. So I do Millennials and Gen Zs. Gen Zs are getting up there. They’re in their 20s. They’re in their mid-20s. So those are the people that I work with. Of course, I work with all ages. Those are the main ones that are having most of the issues. And the Millennials are getting in their upper, well, mid-40s.

Hugh Ballou:
Well, break that down by discipline or profession. You left out boomers. There’s a lot of us.

Jill Robin Payne:
Yes. Well, I see all types of people. This is good for everyone. I was told if I say that, then you need to be more precise. So that’s how I was doing that. I think everyone. When I said everything is communication, everything is relational. So I have that in my books, you know. So if you cannot communicate, how can you fill your needs? And a lot of the problems today is a lot of people are spending a lot of time on the internet and they’re forgetting who they are and bringing who they are on the internet. Into the world and I’ve heard this from a lot of the Millennials and Gen Z’s so they have these filters now But it’s not just no butts. It’s not just the filters. It’s that we’re filtering who we are and We forget who we are. And if I don’t know who I am and I’m not authentic then I’m not gonna be I’m going to feel on edge, I’m going to feel depressed, I’m going to have negative feelings. So we need to realize who are we, who is Hugh, who is Jill? And then once we realize who that is, we know how to exude that to other people.

Hugh Ballou:
So first, we’re talking about our butts today. So talk about why you’ve referenced that a couple of times. We had a sidebar before we started. And this is significant in communications. So talk about the butt that you’ve referred to.

Jill Robin Payne:
Right. OK. So there are certain words that I say people not to say to other people. Refrain from saying why it puts people on the defense. Refrain from starting a sentence with you because it puts people on the defense. And when you compliment someone, which by the way, is just like giving someone a $100 bill, and you say but after, it takes all that joy away from what you just said. So it takes the power of what you said. So I always say buts are B-U-T-T, because we sit on them.

Hugh Ballou:
Ah, so instead of the one T, like it’s, so we sit on there, but well, and we also use it for a barrier. I would like to do something, but, so we, it’s funny, a single word like that sends a message that we don’t want.

Jill Robin Payne:
Exactly. And I say, replace your habit with something else. I work to replace it with and. I don’t like silence. As you can tell, I talk a lot. So even when my clients come, they talk a lot. I have clients that will get off-topic. They’ll come to see me and they’ll say, I didn’t even know what I was going to talk about today. And then they just start talking because what BEMPathy does is it creates a safe environment for both of you so that you all can speak freely and want to speak. And that also is missing in our world. We need to learn how to create a safe environment. And we can do that. We have control over that.

Hugh Ballou:
We do. And we’re all part of making it safe.

Jill Robin Payne:
Yes, exactly.

Hugh Ballou:
So one of the things you mentioned, the techniques and the framing of a conversation, especially since nobody likes dealing with conflict or having to address it. And so not using the word you is paramount, because it sounds like the story, no matter what comes after it.

Jill Robin Payne:
Exactly. And you know what? I tell people that if you know you’re going to have a deep conversation with somebody, write it down. I have something in my book I say, all these thoughts in your head don’t make any sense because you’re not using any senses. the more senses you use, the more you make sense of things. So talk on your phone, listen to it, and edit it before you say it. And that is something good to think about because or when you speak, speak slower and listen to yourself.

Hugh Ballou:
That’s painful. But No, it’s some I’m thinking about the writings of Murray Bowen and Bowen family systems. And yes, we often use words and we create what he calls it triangling. Yes. You triangle you have you have a triangulation and then you’ve got a mess. So we stuck to ourselves and our conversation. And there’s there’s lots of things that we we use in language that we shouldn’t like the you or Bless his heart or let me tell you the truth. Wait a minute. What were you telling me before? We put in words sometimes as fillers, but we don’t realize the impact of those who want to speak to that a little bit how that maybe gets in the way of what you’re talking about with empathy.

Jill Robin Payne:
So words are very important and I’ve talked about this before. So when I would do group, I would have an eraser and I would use these two words and it got people’s attention. I had the eraser in my hand. I made sure I didn’t hit anybody and I threw it. And as I threw it, I said, I hate this eraser. And then I said, I picked up the eraser and I said, I just like this eraser. So words are very powerful. You’re talking about fillers. I’m talking about all words. When we are communicating, even without words, and then when we add words, and that’s what is, when we’re online, all we see are words. So words have become very significant. And we need to think about what we’re saying to ourselves and what we’re saying to others. And when our upbringing, our upbringing, our parents are still in our head and are telling us what we need to do and what we shouldn’t do. Therefore we need to listen and see, do we want to edit those words. So there’s a lot that we need to think about. So much we can’t even get it in 25 minutes.

Hugh Ballou:
Absolutely. And there are just so many sub-themes here. So getting on. Let me, let me share Jill’s website is her name. Jill. Jill Robin Payne. I’m looking for my cheat sheet here with you and it’s jillrobinpain.com and I’ve got it pulled up. And so for people watching, they can see the website, but if you’re not watching, you can, you can go to jillrobinpain.com. I have to pull it up. I had it, but I did something else in the meantime. So Jill, when they go to Jill Robin, R O B I N P a Y N E.com. Yes.

Jill Robin Payne:
I’m sorry, I didn’t hear you.

Hugh Ballou:
What will they find when they get to your website?

Jill Robin Payne:
So I have, they’ll find an email. They can email me. I would love them to, if, if they do not get a happy face from me, it means I did not get their email. I, cause I will answer them. I tell my clients this, it has a blog and it has many videos on different shows that I have been on. and topics that I have talked about. And it also has pictures of three of me, which sort of tells you that we’re all not one person. We are different people at different times of the day and in our life.

Hugh Ballou:
I love it. I love it. So that’s inspiring. So there’s lots more to this that we can cover in this short interview. This is the introduction to Jill Robin Payne. Her phone number is on our website. Her email is on there, and there’s a contact button. So, Jill, there’s a lot of great stuff here, but what do you want to leave people with? What do you want them to do differently? What do you want them to think about?

Jill Robin Payne:
I’d like them to step back and do my BEMPATHY triangle. I would like them to think situation, step back, either emotionally, physically, or both, and get stabilized, and then go back to the situation so they can see a bigger picture and look at the consequences of what they want so that they can receive it.

Hugh Ballou:
Jill Robin Payne, you’ve been a stellar guest today. You’ve given me a whole lot of perspective and new things to think about, and I’m sure there are many other people as well. So thank you for sharing today.

Jill Robin Payne:
Thank you for having me, Hugh.