I3 (cubed): Information, Interpretation, Intensity:
Unlock the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions

Dr. Greg Stewart was a pastor for 15 years and had deep insecurities, that led to an emotional affair and the end of his marriage. His book is the result of a 10 year healing process where he had to face my insecurities that opened the basement door to exposing issues related to his identity, value, and worth. He says, “I am stronger and healthier than I have ever been and i want to help leaders in the body of Christ find the same strength, rest, and peace.”

Dr. Greg Stewart lives in Rockwall, TX and is currently a full-time telehealth counselor, executive coach, and consultant. He has a BA in Organizational Leadership (Cornerstone University), a Master of Divinity (Grand Rapids Theological Seminary), a MA in Counseling (GRTS), and a PhD in Counselor Education and Supervision (Regent U). His dissertation was The Relationship of Emotional Intelligence to Job Satisfaction and Organizational Commitment. He just published his first book, Ie – Unlocking the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions. He is the author of I3: Unlock the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions, and I3 for Couples: Facing Our Negative Emotions to Build Intimacy in Marriage. He is currently working on his third book, The Leadership Quotient, which will be available Fall of 2025. 

He was a pastor for 15 years in Portage, MI (youth, associate, senior), and was an Organizational Development Strategist for three years, traveling the country training and coaching leaders at all levels in all types of industries. Most recently, he served as the Director of the Residential Treatment Center for Cedar Crest Hospital and RTC in Belton, TX. He also has served as an adjunct professor for 20 years for a number of universities (Regent University, Cornerstone University, John Brown University, and Grace College & Seminary). Dr. Stewart and his wife are empty-nesters and are members of Lakepoint Church in Rockwall and lead a small group together.

More at – https://www.becomingmore.com/ 

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou:
Welcome to the nonprofit exchange. This is Hugh Ballou, founder and president of SynerVision Leadership Foundation. Center Vision is how we as leaders create synergy, but we must have clarity of our vision. So we create synergy with our teams, with our volunteers, all our stakeholders and the people. Hmm. That we want to impact their lives today. I have a special guest. He’s from big state of Texas. Dr. Greg Stewart. Our topic today is, is about, we’re going to talk about I3Q, but it’s about our inner strength and our negative emotion. So talk to us about who you are, your background, and why do you do this work?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Well, thank you, Hugh, for having me on. It’s absolute joy. So a little bit of my background, it’s kind of a whole hodgepodge of things. So I’ll just kind of tell a quick story. So back in when I was in my early 20s, I was called in the ministry to be a pastor. And it was back in the day when there was a lot of people who had like 160 credit hours, but no degrees. So they started the adult continuing education programs, like you go one night a week and get a degree. Well, back then what they offered was a degree in organizational leadership. So I thought, great, but my goal was to get on to seminary. So I got the bachelor’s degree in organizational leadership, but then my first semester of seminary, I took philosophy of counseling and it was like a defining moment. My eyes were open because the material was so powerful. So I immediately mapped out a dual master’s degree and then got my MDiv in three years. And then right after that, I got ordained. And then right there was a perfect storm where I came across the book, Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman that came out in 95, as well as I started teaching as an adjunct professor in all of the organizational leadership courses I took, you know, with my alma mater. As well, I was underneath a leader who had some leadership struggles. So that kind of combined in this perfect storm where I really started to fall in love with leadership. So I got my MA in counseling degree and then became a licensed counselor. So I was a pastor, adjunct professor, and a counselor. Well, then I went to get my PhD in counseling, but I did my dissertation on the relationship of emotional intelligence with job satisfaction and organizational commitment. So it was kind of a organizational development degree, even though my PhD was in counseling. And after that, I started my coaching, doing executive coaching and counseling with a medical device company from where I was from in Kalamazoo, Michigan, and then started my consulting career. So that I’ve done, that’s basically been my career as far as, but it’s been in as a pastor, counselor, coach, consultant, You know, adjunct professor and the like that’s kind of culminated into today. But now I do a telehealth counseling. I see about 40 clients a week, um, via telehealth and do some executive coaching and the like right now. And I just completed my first book.

Hugh Ballou:
Your impact is worldwide. So tell us a little bit about your book here and your title. You suggested it was I three cube. Now you’ve got a book and you’re working on more.

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Yeah, so I completed the IQ book. It’s coming out actually next Tuesday and the 19th. And so the IQ book was basically a work over. I’ve been wanting to write this book for 20 years out of the IQ principle, information, interpretation, intensity. But the way it worked out is I just completed it this year, and it was honestly after 10 years. So after I did all that, I left the church that I was at and then actually started working at another church, but then made the fatal mistake of having an emotional affair And with a gal who was on staff and I was a pastor and a marriage counselor. Yeah, I had this emotional affair. We didn’t do anything physically. That’s why they call it emotional. But it really exposed something in me. My marriage never recovered. And when my marriage didn’t recover, I spent the last 10 years doing a deep dive into me, the negative emotions, because I had to figure out what was going on in Greg’s heart. So I definitely stepped out of my skill set and out of my knowledge into just being Greg and finding out what was going on in there. So this book, Unlocking the Inner Strength Behind Your Negative Emotions was, it’s not just, of course, a testimony, but I say that in the introduction, you can’t impart what you don’t possess. Meaning, everything in that book has ran through the system of Greg, but it really kind of equips people to walk into those negative emotions and not be afraid of them. And on the other side is, is rest, it’s peace, it’s power, but I believe it’s crucial for all of us to do regardless of what our experiences are.

Hugh Ballou:
Yeah, wow. So just to timestamp this, people will be listening or watching this anytime in history. So we’re toward the end of 2024. So likely by the time you watch this or listen to it, this book will be on the market and available everywhere. So I3 cubed is information, interpretation, and intensity. You want to say a little more about those three?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
So that’s honestly the last chapter of the book where it’s just a kind of a summarization, easy way to remember that I kind of framed the IQ process as like the Panama Canal. So information, that’s the first step. So in the Panama Canal, the first lock has to fill up with water before the second lock opens. So information. A lot of times we hear snippets of information and we immediately rush to an interpretation, an opinion, as well as intensity emotion when we don’t have all the information. Now imagine that, so the rule is it’s illegal for me, and I’ve applied this for years now, it’s illegal for me to have any opinion or any emotion until I have all the information. Now imagine just on that one, Hugh, if everybody in the world just applied that one principle, it’s illegal for me to have any opinion or any emotion until I have as much information as possible. So once that lock fills up, the second lock opens up to interpretation. This has more to do with critical thinking. Like, there is, okay, so my interpretation, my opinion is negative, right? That’s why we use this. But the question there is, to fill up the lock, is there any other way of looking at it? besides what my mental model says, here, Greg, think this. Because my mental model is not the most accurate thing there is. Of course, as a matter of fact, it produces a lot of bad things or inaccuracy. So there’s just critical thinking of looking at all the possible interpretations, opinions, responses to the information. And that gives you a much more emotionally intelligent, critical thinking, way of responding to the information, then out of the flow of those two comes our intensity, which is just simply emotion. How much emotional energy do I need to respond to this and respond to it in whatever it is in an effective way? So it’s a process to kind of just hold ourselves accountable both in our emotions, but be honest with what truth is, be honest with what facts are, be honest with what’s rational and healthy and wise and right, instead of just flying off the handle and just, you know, responding in kind, right, which is obviously a huge problem in our culture.

Hugh Ballou:
And it’s a problem everywhere. Our audience is primarily nonprofit leaders. We do have some clergy of all faiths, but we also have people who are on nonprofit boards who are business leaders. And, you know, I see what you’re talking about in every segment of our population. Our style of leadership that we champion at Center Vision is transformational leadership. And in that, we model and the culture is a reflection of us. And if we model something bad, we tend to blame people for doing things that maybe it’s like our children learn from us and we blame them. Come on. So you’re the person in charge so you have a business is a primarily a coaching business or we we interview nonprofit leaders with clergy who also interview business people because nonprofits are running a For-purpose business and we need good sound business principles. So tell us about your your business is coaching or what is it? I

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Yeah, so right now in this season, so I’ve had seasons like when I moved to Texas back in 2012, where I flew around the country for three years, meeting with senior leadership teams of all industries of all sides of companies and doing a lot of executive coaching. That and then I actually went to work at a behavioral health hospital. I grew with everything from suicidal clients to a residential treatment center with troubled teens to now I’m doing 100% telehealth and I had I do some executive coaching sprinkled in. So I do a number of things. predominantly right now, um, I just wrapped up my adjunct professor career after teaching as an adjunct professor, uh, for 20 years, um, just ending with doctoral courses, um, um, in psych counseling psychology, but right now I predominantly do, uh, telehealth is my main, my main thing. And who needs you? Um, because, well, I meet the, uh, I meet the average Joe, right? Joe, average Joe and Joanne. So it’s anybody I see clients from, you know, basically teenager all the way through. 80 end of life kind of thing. So there’s really no thing because obviously we’re human and, but it’s normally, it’s not the more chronic, like more difficult mental or emotional disorders. That’s like, that’s not my field. I’m just meeting with average families. Like half my caseload are marriages. Right. You know, people, individuals and marriages is and just people at church, people you see at the grocery store that they struggle with anxiety or their marriage is struggling, but just kind of honestly, just average Joe Schmo right now.

Hugh Ballou:
We do as leaders impact the culture and having been a student of Murray Bowen’s family systems and his eight concepts, you know, the management of self differentiation of self being, being in charge of ourselves. So transformational leader starts with themselves. If you want to transform any organization, you got to start with yourself. So this is really great. So, um. You’ve been on a journey of discovery and I’m seeing that all of that work you’ve done comes into play now. And you know being older citizens experienced citizens we’ll call ourselves We get the benefit of all the knowledge of those years. So you’re able to put a lot of that together. So You’ve you’ve moved from this to that to that. So right now you move to this telehealth. So what’s the purpose of this? Why is it needed? You know, what it was what was calling you to do this?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Yeah, so in my telehealth and over the last 10 years of like in my book, I talked about like speaking of transformational leadership, like my introduction, the first line is you cannot impart what you do not possess. So the product of this book is through my own journey. I went through a divorce and such, and I had to do a deep dive into myself for the last 10 years. And then just with my career and doing telehealth, It really refined, it refined the concepts. That’s what the last four years when I started this business has kind of accomplished. My next phase, you know, I’m 54 and my next phase of my career is honestly writing books. And kind of going to a like a better term an emeritus status of I really want to then go more broader and impact our culture and society continue to equip but going from an individual level to a larger group. mode of really helping as many individuals as I can, groups and organizations to really address this topic of the negative emotions, because it’s almost like the behind the scenes cancer that a lot of people don’t address, but it’s the energy source for a lot of our major struggles, you know, when it comes to accomplishing your vision and interpersonally. And that’s kind of like my next phase of what I really want to impact the culture.

Hugh Ballou:
The culture is huge. There’s a memory in a culture. There’s a culture’s personality. And, you know, I served churches for 40 years as music director. And I served Warren church when there was an eight year pattern where they would turn on the pastor and there would be a hostile party. So that was an organizational issue. So until that was solved, the leader couldn’t, and all those leaders did great work. They were, they were very experienced, but you know, there’s a problem with that. So. As if we’re in an organization, maybe you don’t have an answer for this yet, but and we see that there’s a there’s an issue with the culture itself. How do we manage ourselves and how do we address that?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
So I’ll answer. I’ll answer this way, just going to the broader culture, because I address this in my book that there’s everything you’ll see. Well, like you just said, it’ll be in a flow of a pendulum. And a key statement I make in my book is the achieving both goals of grace and truth, right? So being graceful and empathic with people, but also holding to truth and boundaries. That the pendulum like years ago, and this is kind of the story from, let’s say the 70s and 80s, that it was so hard and so rigid People were hurt from that, like the fire and brimstone kind of culture, to where now the pendulum has swung way over to the extreme of grace and empathy. So it’s hard to hold people accountable because you don’t want to upset them. Right? And upsetting them means you don’t love them, or you hate them, or you’re toxic. So grace and empathy without truth and boundaries is enablement. But truth and boundaries without grace and empathy is toxic. So whether it be in a one-on-one relationship, or a group, or an organization, it’s really not about what we should do a lot of times. I believe it’s about how. how we relate, communicate, and be in relationship through our struggles trying to arrive at what’s the most effective, what’s the most truthful, what’s the most, in my book I use rational, healthy, wise, and right. And it’s all about the how. So I think we need to accomplish both goals where I show you grace and empathy that you’re safe with me, but that also means I need to share truth. And we’re all accountable to what truth is, objective truth, and what’s rational, healthy, wise, and right. So really it’s about being able to balance that, that even though a church might go through a hard time, look, if there’s a disagreement or we need to move on to a new pastor, what have you, fine, that’s the what, but how we go about doing it. has to make sure that we accomplish both goals of grace and empathy and truth and boundaries. And honestly, it’s not come from me, it came from, you know, Jesus, John 1 14, Jesus came full of grace and truth.

Hugh Ballou:
Yeah, we misinterpret those. And actually, what I teach on a lot, and I hear it in the substance of what you’re saying, is that we actually, as leaders, set up some of these problems, don’t we?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Yes. Absolutely. And why? Why do we set them up? And that’s where it’s because, or I’ll just speak about me. I set up those paradigms or scenarios that turn into hurt. It’s because I myself am experiencing my own negative emotions. So let me be quick to say that negative emotions aren’t the issue. Matter of fact, it’s like there’s stress. I need to cook dinner. I need to finish the laundry. It’s not the existence of negative emotions that’s the issue. It’s the inflation. of negative emotions, which means if you say something that hurts my feelings, sure, on a scale of 1 to 10, it’s a 1 or a 2. But for some reason, I respond internally with a 6, 7, or 8. So what I do is when I address that issue with you, You should only get the one or two, right? Because what’s the actual consequences? But no, I dumped the six, seven, and eight. So that’s where grace and empathy is lost because we’ve come in like a sledgehammer. And this happens in marriages. This happens all the time, not just in leaders, where it’s the inflation. That inflation is caused from lies, I believe, about myself or you that, you know, you’re trying to do this, your motives, right? Or you always do this. lies we believe, or what I talk about is, I use a house as an example, if you allow me a picture. So I picture like staying on the front lawn and the house of my heart is behind me. So I’m on the front lawn and I’m looking at all the people who upset me, right? So that’s fine. And it’s true, they might’ve upset me, but when all these people, there’s an inflation, like a one or two turns into a six, seven or eight, I say right there, I’ve got to stop. And I’ve got to turn around And ignore those people because I’ve got to face my own because I have to figure out this one key question, what’s being exposed in me. So I have to walk into the house of my heart and that’s where I have all the emotions I work with insecurity, anxiety, fear, worry, anger, depression, but that first floor is insecurity. what’s being exposed to me but on the floor of insecurity there’s a doorway and that doorway goes into the basement and in the basement is the machine of identity value and worth that when you say something negative about me what’s the phrase we use i take it personally which means what it’s impacting my value and worth. And that’s my, you know, my emotional goal. Now I’m being threatened by value and worth. But over in the cellar is the cellar door of trauma and not big T trauma, like, you know, war, but little T trauma, like very difficult experiences. We’ve gone through bad relationships, a job loss, and I scoop the emotion from that and dump it on. So there’s a lot to unpack inside of Greg first, before I address, you know, how you insulted me.

Hugh Ballou:
That’s worth a whole session folks. If you by the way, if you miss some of these sound bites that are really critical, there’ll be a full transcript on the page and that you can find all of my interviews at the the nonprofit exchange.org the. nonprofitexchange.org you can find this one and this one is oh you’ll you’ll find it um on on the list it’s it’s information interpretation intensity but the what you’re going to look for is unlock the inner strength behind your Negative emotions and I know of course you and I aren’t guilty of being triggered are we you know, we have to admit Yes, I’m frail. I’m not perfect. So we really and clergy as a sector and right behind them are nonprofit leaders We don’t want to offend anybody. We want people to like us so we’re not gonna confront them because we’ve really I Confront means with your front. It’s not a negative thing. It’s it’s addressing it now While it’s a minor bump on the radar blimp on the radar before it becomes a nuclear disaster So there’s a timeliness to do and also in studying the work of Murray Bowen. We want to remain calm And be direct, you know, people say, I’ll be honest with you. Not just be direct.

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Yeah, absolutely.

Hugh Ballou:
Any wisdom around, we need to deal with it and we need to deal with it properly. Now, some things have to be one-to-one, but in groups, things come up and letting it go is not good. Right.

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
And so both with clergy and churches as well as any non-profit, I mean a non-profit like many, unlike many organizations that are for profit, everybody who works at a non-profit, the person who started, the entrepreneur who started a non-profit, It leads with heart. It leads with mission and vision and purpose and calling and destiny. And matter of fact, I’d say that every job on earth ever and every technological advancement ever is either trying to solve a human problem or enhance the human experience. Like Howard Schultz with Starbucks, right? That became his vision. But with nonprofits, I mean, it is so much about I want it’s changed the world, right? It truly is at that level. And there’s so much passion, but with our impassioned comes emotions. And so when we have to have the truth and boundaries conversation, I always use the phrase like in the first chapter, I explained emotional goals versus pathway. My emotional goal is to fulfill my heart and passion through the pathway of this agency and when somebody confronts me or says I’m doing it wrong or I need to do it better, I feel like my emotional goal of my vision, passion, destiny is being blocked. Because that person, or I’m not doing good, or I can’t fulfill my vision, it’s just so easy to inflate the emotions just from that part of our nonprofit vision. And that’s what we just all need to realize, that we’re in danger. We have to realize that, look, that is separate from the truth. that I could be more effective at, or be better at, or need to do something which is truth and boundaries, because you saying I need to change in some way, is it rational what you said to me? Rational, healthy, wise, and right, yes. So is it rational, healthy, wise, and right for me to feel that my emotional goal is being blocked? And that I’m somehow failing in my value and worth? That’s not rational, it’s not healthy, it’s not wise, or is it right? So that paradigm really guides us. But nevertheless, what you’re accountable for is to present that truth to me with grace and empathy. Right? So you have to accomplish both goals in communicating that truth and not be so direct, but also be supportive in grace and empathy. Just that paradigm of accomplishing both those goals in those crucial, difficult conversations goes so far because it protects the heart of the person you’re speaking with, but while giving them the truth.

Hugh Ballou:
A lot of stuff to unpack there. A lot of stuff to unpack there. So I want to show you a website, but just a quick answer on, we teach nonprofit leaders to describe the impact of what we do. We’re changing people’s lives. So give me an example of people you’ve worked with. How have you helped them impact their lives?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
All right, so on the individual, most people come with just the standard form of anxiety. Let’s say that’s a very, very common emotion. And in the counseling process, I don’t just see it as me having empathy for them because I don’t have a natural temperament for a counselor. I call myself a very active counselor. I want to equip them to not just solve their presenting problem. So I picture on a negative 10 to positive 10 scale. Negative 10 to zero is counseling, let’s say, where the emotions they’re experiencing are getting in the way of their everyday living, right? That’s fine. So I help them at least get back to zero, more stable. But because of my mindset, when it comes to the coaching, when it comes to emotional intelligence, I want to equip them to go from zero to positive 10 and become as effective as they can be, not just solve their current negative emotions, but become incredibly emotionally resilient, emotionally intelligent. And the way to do that is through the process of this book is removing all the power from the environment, right? So I say nothing bothers me unless it should.

Hugh Ballou:
So equipping them to be powerful. Yep. Uniquely enough, your website for people listening, um, you don’t see the screen is becoming more.com. So what you just said leads right into this. So when people go to becoming more.com, what will they find Greg?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Well, of course, um, at the top there’s on the right, there’s all my social media link and you can learn more. And that takes you into the various aspects of the counseling and coaching. If you scroll down just a little bit, there’s my. There’s my book. Um, and people, the whole contact me a lot of, a lot of clients like do the whole contact me and then send me a message or an email to get hooked up with counseling or coaching or what have you. Um, but this basically unpacks as a whole, another couple of websites like that actually is linked to the website. I cubed book.com. So there’s professional counseling, leadership, coaching, and business consulting. And then there’s the contact us.

Hugh Ballou:
So if people contact you, you actually respond to them.

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
Oh yeah. Almost like within 15 minutes. I’m very, very good at responding. Cause I get an email right here and respond very quickly.

Hugh Ballou:
I just point that out because some places don’t and, um, you’re, you’re the real guy. So, um, thank you so much, Greg Stewart, Dr. Greg Stewart’s been our guest today. So as we’re leaving, you’ve given us a wealth of information. So what’s a parting thought or capsulization of what you said that you want to leave people with today?

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
I would like to leave people with asking themselves just simply that one question, because when I asked myself this one question, it kind of opened the door. It’s when you’re upset. It’s instead of burning all of your energy on who you’re upset with or what you’re upset about, ask yourself the question and don’t let yourself off the hook. Keep asking the question, what is being exposed in me, right? So we burn energy like, well, I’m upset that they, yeah, I get that, but why are you so upset? That’s where we need to go is that word so and walk into our negative emotions there because that’s the inflation. It’s true that they upset you got it but why are you so upset and that’s when you’re going to start walking into those negative emotions and it’s difficult but it’s powerful. Walk into those negative emotions and that’s where you’ll find like healing, equipping, and emotional independence and autonomy, emotional resilience and strength. Because once you start figuring out what’s being exposed in you and the emotional goals you have, take the power back from the environment to yourself and equip yourself to heal and grow. And that’s, that’s where you find peace and rest. And it’s a beautiful place to be.

Hugh Ballou:
Dr. Greg Stewart, wise words. Thank you again for being our guest today on the nonprofit exchange.

NPE Dr. Greg Stewart:
And thank you. It was great to be here. Really appreciate it.