The Nonprofit Exchange Podcast
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Power Conversations – Discover Your Authentic Leadership Voice
Dr. Karen Jacobson is CEO and founder of Aligned Leadership Academy driving STEAM organizations to industry leadership by cultivating agile, high-performance teams for rapid growth. She is the author of Power Conversations and brings to the table over 30 years of leadership training with extensive knowledge in the fields of Neuroscience, Emotional Intelligence, and Human Potential
A wise leader will think strategically and not just tactically. They will always be at least one step ahead of their team members. They will maximize performance and motivate their teams by understanding the individuals and being agile, being able to adapt their leadership style based on behavior, culture, and generational needs
More at – https://drkarenjacobson.com
The Interview Transcript
Hugh Ballou:
Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange. This is Hugh Ballou. We’ve done this for 10 years now. We’ve had incredible guests over the last 10 years. And every week, we have somebody that breaks the bubble. There’s something new to learn about leadership. And today is no exception. Dr. Karen Jacobson is my guest today. So Karen, please tell people a little bit about you, your background, and what’s your passion for your business.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
First of all, thank you for having me here, Hugh. It is an honor and a pleasure. And yes, my focus is leadership. I think that my first leadership position, I was about 10 years old, and I was in the Scouts. Now, backing up for that, just a little bit of my background. I was born in the States, and I spent 15 years of my life living in Israel overseas. I spent all my schooling there and I also was in the army and received a lot of leadership there. I was an officer in the Israeli army. And once I got out of the service, I came back to the States and started working on my career. Throughout my career, I happened to have the opportunity to be in quite a number of leadership positions, anything from being class president to running organizations. I was previously a chiropractor before I was a consultant. I currently run Align Leadership Consulting and we focus on STEAM organizations that are looking to become industry leaders while growing through massive growth. working primarily with the leadership team, the executive team, and sometimes also the senior leadership team and upper management. We’ll provide anything from strategic planning to core skills, as I call them. And that really is like how to communicate with people and how to interact, how to have some emotional intelligence as a leader. Dr. Karen Jacobson
Hugh Ballou:
Wow. That’s a lot of stuff. So, folks, you can find this at The Nonprofit Exchange, TheNonprofitExchange.org, and then the episodes will be listed by date, recorded, and the latest one at the top, like this one. You will find a complete transcript. So if a lot of the stuff goes by in a hurry, No worries, you’ll be able to go back and find what she said and copy it for your review So Karen the book that you wrote that you want to talk about today is power Conversations and that’s that’s the subject of this show the book to us. Would you please and then I’m gonna I’m gonna know more about this Power conversations, what’s the subtitle creating first impressions to lasting connections? So we all talk about communication, but we don’t do anything about it. So what’s your wisdom on how do we have better conversations?
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Well, one of the things in conversations is most of the time we’ll speak to people out of our own frame of reference. In other words, if I’m a big idea person and I’m a fast talker and I’m very energetic and I’ll come in, I’ll just like, rattle off to somebody, not paying attention to who my audience might be. Who is that individual? A conversation is not a monologue. It’s a dialogue. And in a dialogue, there are two people minimum. And so in order for me to actually build rapport with someone, I have to first understand who they are, what their mode of communication is, and how they receive information, And then think of it as me transmitting. Just like we’re doing a radio interview right now, and the radio is going to transmit on a certain wavelength, when I’m speaking to someone, I need to understand their wavelength, transmit to their wavelength, and vice versa. They need to be able to understand mine, and somewhere in the middle, we can connect and blend.
Hugh Ballou:
Wow. In your introduction, you referred to STEAM, S-T-E-A-M, as abbreviations. There are probably three people out there that don’t know what that is. Would you explain?
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Absolutely, because that’s, you know what, when I first heard STEAM, I was a little confused because I always knew it as STEM, and that’s science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. Over the last few years, they’ve added arts into the mix, which I think is very interesting. But what that really is focused on is focused on when we’re looking at some of the older generations, we might’ve talked about people that are, you know, right brain, left brain. and what our focus is. Truthfully, we’re really whole brains, but they’re going to be those of us that are focused more on data. Then they’re going to be those of us that are focused more on feelings. I actually get to that in the book and describe how those different behavioral aspects and different aspects of our presence make a difference in conversations and how we can connect and influence people.
Hugh Ballou:
It’s amazing what we can learn from people. I’m 78, and I have a community of nonprofit leaders, and we talk several times. And Karen, I learn more just by listening to them talk, and I’m the leader of the group. And I learn a whole lot, even though I get to say, this is what we’re going to talk about, and I guide the conversation. Then it’s time for me to listen. There’s great power in listening. That’s the other side of the conversation, right?
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
That is the primary side of a good conversation. And not just listening, you know, there’s different levels of listening. There are those people who will listen to answer. Okay. Um, it’s important to be able to listen, to understand, listen, to understand and relate to somebody. Because if I’m sitting here and listening to you, planning what I’m saying next, I haven’t really heard what you had to say. I haven’t gotten an understanding of who you are. and what your needs might be. So think of it as a true conversation that builds rapport is a form of a negotiation. Without the tactical things of a negotiation as far as what do we need, what do we want? But it really is the same thing. Because as an individual, as a speaker, or as a listener, we flip. positions each time, and both sides have needs and will have wants. So we really have to navigate our way so that we can understand the other side and answer appropriately to meet their needs. And again, finding that middle ground.
Hugh Ballou:
You just demonstrated several things you talked about. If people are watching this, they can see your energy and your focus. Communication is, we deliver words, but behind the words, there’s the emotion, the physical emotion in your face, and the inflection. And what you did so powerfully is you made your point and you paused. And I let the silence be there because that was a profound moment. We tend to want to go on and on. And then the listener wants to jump in when we pause. But maybe it’s time just to leave that clarity. That was brilliant. So watching you and listening to you is an education and communication in itself.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
No, thank you. First of all, there is power in pause. And I’m going to repeat that there is power in a pause. You are looking to leave impact and leave an impression, say something, and then pause. That space allows the audience to take that in. And when somebody can take that in, they can absorb it. And then it’s like checking a box.
Hugh Ballou:
Amazing. I want to piggyback on another point you made. You might know my background as a musical conductor. It took me many years to learn, and my lab in graduate school was mostly computer programmers. And we had a similar skillset. You have a rigid structure and you have to be creative without breaking the rules. Consequently, we learned to function left and right brain. Now we tend to lean one side or the other, but you said we are all full-brain, but there’s exercising that ability to be analytical and creative and staying within the parameters. Do you want to highlight that in any way? Because other people could do this as well, right?
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Oh, absolutely. That’s the beauty in communication. Communication, while there might be some people who are more masterful and might be people who have been born with maybe better skills, communication is a learned skill and practice Practicing the right thing, by the way, because I know that there is this cliche that we say that practice makes perfect. No, practice makes it permanent. So if I’ve got bad habits and I will continue to practice my bad habits, then I’ve got a permanent bad habit. But if I can practice the right way until it becomes ingrained, until it becomes muscle memory, then automatically my response is going to be innate. It’s going to be natural and it will be appropriate to the situation because there’s better understanding.
Hugh Ballou:
You were aligned so deeply with the principles you’re talking about. It’s just really exciting. So there are so many folks, this is worth copying and putting in your notebook. The part she does, everything she said, but there are several highlights that I just want to lift up. It’s so encouraging, Karen, I want to get your book. It’s so encouraging to look at the same old topic in a way that’s profound engaging and encouraging in a way. In your, um… in your narrative you gave me. I’m going to read this, but it opens up a whole lot of other things for us to think about. A wise leader will think strategically and not just tactically. They will always be at least one step ahead of their team members, and maybe others as well. They will maximize performance and motivate their teams by understanding the individuals and being agile, being able to adapt their leadership style based on behavior, culture, and Generational needs. That’s profound. You want to hit on any of those topics? That’s a lot of really good stuff.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Are you sure I wrote that? No. Honestly, that is really the essence of my approach. When I talk about alignment, and there is a specific process that I use for alignment, the first aspect of alignment is really to assess. And what you’re describing there are some of the parameters that need to be assessed and evaluated. So think of it. A lot of this comes from my background, not just growing up and being in the military, but I actually went through three wars when I grew up in Israel. There was a lot of learning in that. I’m in the process of writing a keynote speech, and it relates to, exactly what it was, what I observed growing up in a war-torn country, and how that shaped not only my leadership, but my approach towards people, towards life, towards building businesses, and anything that I do. And so, really, having that plan. And that’s what it is about when I say in there, it says about being two steps ahead. It’s having that combo of being able to see the big picture without missing the details. Because some details, tiny details can trip you up. And so being able to have that holistic view and being able to see all sides is an approach as an example that during my years of practice as a family and sports chiropractor, I use that approach my patients in order to help and diagnose what they’re going through. Now, I took that approach to diagnosis and brought it into businesses. So that’s where things are aligned. It’s diagnosing. Sometimes I’ll speak to a business owner. I remember having one of my clients come in. He said to me, I think I lost my passion towards being a leader. I said, well, tell me what’s going on. He goes, well, I started just before COVID. Most of my team started off as being remote, and now it’s three years later, and I just feel like the team is fragmented. And as I was listening, He was thinking about the fact that the problem, the challenge was with him and the fact that he might’ve lost his passion. And really the challenge was that he was operating a work group and not a cohesive team. So sometimes when you do the right diagnosis, you actually find out that behind that scratch, there’s a deeper wound. Behind that issue, there’s a bigger problem, and it’s not the problem that the leader might have thought of. And when you can get down to the core of the issue, you can start the change in the healing. Wow.
Hugh Ballou:
Just had to sit with that for a minute. Now, we’re using the word leader. And when you Google the word leader, you come up with billions of examples. So our audience mostly would be nonprofit organizational leaders, community organizations, and clergy, whether they’re pastors, priests, or rabbis. We’re all doing the same kind of stuff. We’re doing stuff for the good of humankind. So who is a leader? How do you classify a leader? Who’s a leader?
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Actually, interesting that you ask that. There’s one of my blog posts and one of my articles. Actually, there’s a two-part article. When I talk about leadership when you get the call to lead, you take somebody who has a family of five, and they have to run a household. They’re leaders. It just really depends on the size of our flock and the size of our community. But those that are running the show, whether it’s for profit or for purpose, whether it’s business or whether it’s personal, have to lead and show an example.
Hugh Ballou:
There’s a saying in the music world, in the orchestra or choir world, what they see is what you get. And so speak to a minute about some problems that we’re anxious about or concerned about, even angry about, or problems that we might have set up ourselves. Because the culture is a reflection of a leader in music, and it’s also that goes to any organization, I think.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Well, absolutely. And let me take one of the organizations that I’m working with, had a challenge with the team, was working very much in silos. And what does that really mean? They were working as individuals, and mostly because it was a group of introverted individuals that are not used to going out and building relationships. And part of their challenge was that, hey, our team is not really communicating and working really well. But where is the origin? So having worked with that team and working individually with the different leaders kind of had to push them to step out of their comfort zone a bit and do some outreach. Hey, you know what? There are six people on this executive team. How well do you know the other five? What are you doing to get to know them? Now fast forward, it’s about right now, it’s probably about 16 months later, and they’re a cohesive team. You know, you’re ready to put them on a boat, give them oars, they’ll row in concert. in sync because of the fact that they actually took those steps of getting to know each other and stepping out and changing, shifting their mindset. And doing some of the uncomfortable things, which is what a leader will always do. Take those steps to do what might be uncomfortable, stretch out of your comfort zone so that you can grow and achieve more and in the process be more visible. Therefore you’re also building a better flock or a better community, a better following.
Hugh Ballou:
It’s so good to get out of our comfort zone. I’ve pretty much been out of my comfort zone all my whole life. I started conducting at 18, never having been in a choir, studied music, but never had been in a choir. So speak to people who don’t think they’re leaders or think they want to be leaders, but they don’t see themselves as leaders. Somebody believed in me when I was nothing but potential, and it helped me move into that space. So speak to those who aren’t sure if they’re a leader or not.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Here’s one of the things that certain leadership skills are absolutely things that we can learn and we have to develop. Think of music. I happen to have a background in music as well, and not just the guitar that you see on the back wall, but I’ve actually, my junior high I spent in a special class for musically gifted children. and learn music theory and learn sight singing and singing in a choir. I sang Händel. I sang, you know, the Messiah. And there were things there that completely stretched us out of our comfort zone. But when you’re in a position, especially if you’re looking to, you know what, maybe I am a leader, maybe I can move forward, start off with finding out who can you talk to, who might be someone that you can look at as an example, who might be able to mentor you, who might be able to guide you. and find out from them what it took them to get to where they are, and how can they impart some of that wisdom on you? Because that’s what a good leader does, it really pays it forward.
Hugh Ballou:
That is, you can take that advice to the bank when you actually not just hear it, but you apply it. So Karen, we’re going to take a little trip and we’re going to go to your website. And her website is her name. It’s D-R for doctor, Karen, K-A-R-E-N with a K. jacobson, S-O-N, no spaces, drkarenjacobson.com. So, Karen, some folks here are listening to the podcast. So, tell them what they’ll find when they get to your website.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
So, on the website, there are two aspects of my business as what we would call a thought leader. I have a focus on businesses and I also do Keynote speaking, I’m a professional speaker as well. So when you hit the homepage, you’ll actually find some of that information about speaking and events. There’s a brand new speaker reel there with the new keynote that’s being produced currently and information on some of the work that we do as consultants. Anything from workshops, team development, strategy days, executive coaching, And that’s actually part of that would be in our menu on a website where it will say services, which is pretty simple.
Hugh Ballou:
So I love the slogan align, engage, lead. Do you want to highlight that for a minute? Those are critical words.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
That is the call to action. So the alignment, which is the principle, is the core principle of everything that we do. Um, and, and when you align, you align from within yourself and with your surroundings. And once you’re in alignment with principles, with actions, that is when you can engage with the audience around you. And once you engage with the audience around you, you can lead them towards the greater good.
Hugh Ballou:
And a good leader is also very transparent. She’s got her phone number, and her email on this, and she’s got a contact. So if people want to contact you, it’s right here and you respond to people, I’m sure.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. We respond fairly quickly.
Hugh Ballou:
So we’ve packed a lot in this interview in just 25 minutes, but there’s a whole lot more I can determine. There’s a whole lot more to learn. And so I encourage people, go to your website, look at the stuff. There’s just a wealth of information. So Karen, thank you so much for enlightening me and all of our leaders about some new paradigms that even if you knew them, it’s good to remember and you learn the next level. So what do you want to leave people with today?
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
I would say one of the thoughts is never afraid to push your boundaries because if you fall, you can always get up, but there’s always the opportunity of great findings on the other side of that personal barrier.
Hugh Ballou:
It’s been delightful and enlightening to talk to you today. Dr. Karen Jacobson, a wealth of information. Thank you for being our guest today on The Nonprofit Exchange.
Dr. Karen Jacobson:
Thank you so much, Hugh. It’s been my honor and my pleasure.