Building Buzz to Attract More Energy and Funding to Your Nonprofit Organization

Interview with Michael Hemphill

Michael HemphilMichael Hemphill is creator and producer of BUZZ. He is a former award-winning newspaper reporter who has spent the last 15 years devoting his time and heart to becoming an entrepreneurial nonprofit leader in his communities. To Buzz4Good Podcastaccompany BUZZ the television show, Michael has started a podcast, BUZZ: Inside the Hive,, that interviews marketing pros who offer tips and tools to help nonprofits. The podcast is also available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.




Read the Interview

Hugh Ballou: Greetings, everyone. This is The Nonprofit Exchange, and this is Hugh Ballou. My guest is a friend who I’ve known since I moved to Virginia. It’s been about 14 years now. Michael Hemphill. Where are you today, in Roanoke?

Michael Hemphill: I am in Roanoke.

Hugh: Roanoke, Virginia. I am going to get right to the chase here. We are helping nonprofits leaders and clergy think about really good sound principles to run the organization and to fully achieve the mission and the vision that you see. Michael, tell us a little bit about yourself and your passion. Why are you doing this buzz thing? Tell us about it.

Michael: My background, for about the last 15 years, I have been really involved with the nonprofit world here in southwest Virginia and elsewhere. I began my career as a newspaper reporter. Then life sent me in another direction. I’ve been doing nonprofits. Over the years, I’ve come to appreciate and value the work that nonprofits do in our country. The breadth and depth of nonprofits’ work from rescue missions to children’s choirs to science museums, on and on and on, I think bind the fabric that our country is built on. I’ve worked for nonprofits. But especially when it comes to this project of Buzz, what I found over the years in working with various nonprofit organizations is that as skilled and passionate and knowledgeable as nonprofit leaders are, in terms of fulfilling the mission of their individual nonprofits, they oftentimes either lack the time, the expertise, or the funding to properly promote their nonprofit through good marketing in order to reach more potential donors and volunteers and clients. This Buzz project is an offspring of that.

Hugh: Buzz. How did you come about that name?

Michael: obviously, when it comes to buzz, you’re trying to get more buzz for your nonprofit or the things you’re promoting. I came up with that.

The inspiration of Buzz is a project that takes place here in Roanoke, Virginia. Several years ago, the American Advertising Federation of Roanoke had an event they held every year called CreateAthon. CreateAthon involved various marketing and advertising agencies coming together for a 24-hour period to help nonprofits with various marketing needs. I was at the time marketing director of the Science Museum of Western Virginia. We had come up with this new fundraising idea. It was a 5K race called the Pi Miler Time Traveler. Why Pi Miler? Because a 5K race is typically 3.1 miles. The Pi Miler was 3.14 miles because we were the Science Museum after all. The Time Traveler part of it came about because the race actually started at 1:50am right before our clocks fell back in the fall. By the time you finished the race, you finished the race before you started. We thought it was a pretty cool idea, but we didn’t have any real marketing funds in order to promote the race in order to get people to go there. We submitted the proposal to CreateAthon. This local advertising company accepted our calls pro bono, created a phenomenal TV commercial, got us some airtime on local TV. By the time of that very frigid November morning when we had that race, we had about 300 people out there at 1:50am to run it.

What I learned from that was that proper marketing is what drives a nonprofit. You can be fulfilling your mission as wonderfully as you can, but if people don’t know about it, they’re not going to want to help you in terms of dollars, volunteers, or come to seek your services. Over the years, that message stayed with me. About a year ago, I started to develop a TV show, where a nonprofit would be featured in terms of the great work it does and the community it serves. But it really was in need of a marketing makeover. Then we introduced in the TV show a local advertising/marketing agency, creative people who come together to do good branding and all sorts of other marketing assets, help the nonprofit achieve more funds. That’s where the project is now. We’ve developed a pilot episode of Buzz that we premiered locally in the fall. We got a commitment from Blue Ridge PBS, our local public television station. I’m very excited about the show. They want to air a full season of it when we have a full season produced. That’s what we are working on now.

Hugh: Wow. There is a lot of stuff in that short narrative that you gave us. I was unaware of your background as a journalist, as a newspaper reporter. That’s a good background to have. I find that a lot of nonprofits are doing very good work, but they don’t put their head around writing about it, creating the statement about the impact they’ve had. Part of marketing is segmenting it to the person that wants to hear it, but you want to influence that person to make a decision to come follow you, subscribe to your events, come out at what time in the morning? 1:50am?

Michael: Yeah.

Hugh: 1:50am. I ran a race in Dunedin, Florida, over the bridge to some island with my daughter. It was a midnight race. That’s bad enough.

Michael: The Florida weather was probably more enjoyable than Virginia weather in November.

Hugh: Absolutely. Especially in the middle of the night. You have to be a dedicated runner. You got the word out to the adventurous people who wanted to be there to say they did it. Was it on a Saturday morning?

Michael: A Sunday morning, 1:50am, right before the clocks fall back. For nonprofits, always trying to find something unique, something that stands out from other events, and ways to make that event shine and cut through all the other advertising and marketing noise, for-profit, and nonprofit. Marketing is so essential for anything.

One of my first nonprofit projects, I was working with a community to redevelop an old nursing home into a multi-purpose facility. One of the facilities there was going to be a local YMCA. We built it. The director there, a great guy, but very young, he was developing the first real health and wellness program at the Y. He put all this time into crafting a six-week program for weight loss, lining up the instructors, class times, workout regimen. We had everything lined up, but he could not understand why no one had signed up for it just about three days before the program was about to start. Look around. No one knew about it. He hadn’t factored in the marketing side of things. There was one flyer hanging up somewhere in the Y, but he hadn’t promoted it to the community. No one knew about it; therefore, no one had signed up. Once again, you can spend all this time trying to fulfill your mission, but if no one knows about it, it will fall on deaf ears.

Hugh: You and I first met at the Fourth of July picnic, fireworks and whatnot. You were around the table. That was the Mountain Valley Charitable Foundation. Somewhere in that time frame, we did several planning sessions for converting the firehouse down in Elliston. You and I have done some things together accidentally. But I remember how you kept putting good ideas on the storyboard as we were moving forward.

Coming back to this. That’s a great idea. You finished the race before you started. I want to be there. I want to do that. I want to have a medal that says I finished the race before I started it. You found a unique twist. One of my guests wrote a book on branding called Twist. You put a twist to an idea so it stands out.

What I want to unpack here is cutting through the noise and interrupting people’s thinking so they really listen to you. That requires that you have a statement of why this is important, and our unique value proposition so people understand what the value is. Once they understand there is a need for this, then they understand the unique value proposition so they go, Hmm, this is what you need. Talk about that. This is a historic problem for those of us we call nonprofits. One of my guests renamed it a for-purpose corporation. We got to make a profit so we have to overcome the stigma of that scarcity thinking. It’s cutting through the noise. How do we identify as a leader that is making things happen? Is that a clear enough question?

Michael: Try one more time.

Hugh: We want to cut through the noise. It’s about starting with why this is important. How do we get people’s attention? What’s the message? How do you craft the message that will speak to people? You and I talk to so many people who are passionate about what they do, and they tell you everything about it. What’s the secret for cutting through the noise and getting people to listen?

Michael: The first thing is determining who you’re speaking to. Who is your audience? Oftentimes, nonprofits seem to start more internally with providing the message that will speak to the nonprofit leaders or staff. If a nonprofit’s primary source of funding Is donations, then their messaging needs to speak to donors, not necessarily to their clients or volunteers. There is a difference. If this nonprofit doesn’t rely on donors or charitable contributions but more on paid services by the number of clients they have, then their messaging needs to focus on the clients. If there is a nonprofit that mainly needs more volunteers, then they need to focus on that. There is that.

Then the medium. How are they going to tell the story? I have heard it describe that we live in a post-textual world. Nobody is reading newsletters that come out with article after article. They are looking for videos, photos, social media. You have to make sure you are providing your messaging in a format that is resonating with today’s audience.

You have the message and the audience. How are you going to be able to get that message to the audience that you need? That relies on some funding that is needed. In today’s world, that’s very difficult to make a video or get some quality photos out there. Make sure you can get those to your constituents. That can be a challenge that oftentimes requires a little money or some very smart marketing. Going back to the show. That is what we are hoping to be able to provide to nonprofit leaders, not only those featured on the show, but those who are watching. Some tips and tools of how to better engage with their audience.

Hugh: I’m finishing up a year in a couple months as president of the board of the Lynchburg Symphony Orchestra. Characteristically, they would set out messages on Facebook, but nobody comes. We would have a handful of people in this huge hall. We’ve switched to a renovated historic hall downtown, but we’ve also put together a whole bunch of different tracks of different messages and packaged them differently for different audiences. Different people come for different reasons. The last two concerts have been sold out. We are doing a different kind of chamber concert this time, so we have a smaller audience. We have billboards, public radio, newsletter, email blasts, social media, word of mouth, and an app that we can push out. People give us our number, and we push out blasts through EZ Card. There is lots of different messages. We figure the average person in Lynchburg who used to say, “We have a symphony?” gets seven messages about what’s going on. I don’t know if that’s enough to catch them, but they are precisely targeted and precisely worded. We are filling up the concerts.

Michael: Excellent. Seven is the minimum number of touches that you need to provide someone before they will take any action on the messaging you are sending out. Facebook at one time was a great way to connect with your constituents. But now, with the algorithms that they do, it’s much more difficult to reach your audience of followers and friends. You will reach 3% of them if you are a business or nonprofit with a regular post. You have to inject some funding into that in order to boost it or engage with an advertising/marketing agency who can do that on your behalf. Facebook is great. It’s free. What they always say, you get what you pay for. If you are counting on just Facebook or social media to connect with your audience about your event, if you are a business or nonprofit, you will be unsuccessful if you are also not backing that up with some money.

Hugh: We’re talking about some of them here, but a list. What are the components for creating an effective buzz?

Michael: You just mentioned a key word, and that is the list. The list is yours. It’s proprietary. It’s all the people, whether you have the mailing addresses or email addresses, these are people who have engaged with your nonprofit in the past. You want to value and protect it to your death because you’ve worked hard to engage those people. Those people are already engaged with you. Connecting with them by email, letters, social media, all these touches are vital. If you have not taken the time to update your list and get that information factual, then please do so. That is vital.

I started a podcast as part of Buzz called Buzz: Inside the Hive. We interviewed one thought leader in this area. One of the podcasts is “Nobody Cares About Your Nonprofit.” We did that three or four episodes ago. This guy says through your successful marketing, that is the way you can engage with your audience. But during that, he was talking about the value of the list. That is key. By keeping that and making sure that is up-to-date and referring to that to reach your audience, that is vital.

Hugh: Our sponsor today is Wordsprint. We would be remiss in not mentioning the direct mail piece of this.

Michael: Actually, Bill Gilmer of Wordsprint, he’s going to be my next podcast. Print is often viewed as the dinosaur in marketing with all the digital and social media out there. Bill provides a compelling case for the importance of print still. With all the splashy and sexy digital and social and web, email that is out there, having something to hold in your hands gives you a validity. That’s still important. The mailing addresses you have to be able to connect with your constituents is critical. You don’t know who you’re reaching if you broadcast on TV or radio or digital or social, but you know that if you have a mailing address, they are at least receiving something of yours. What they do with it at that point is sometimes up in the air. Print is still important.

Hugh: Print with a plan behind it. His formula is 30% the message, 30% to the right person. You have to know that everyone on your list is alive. And then 30% the frequency. There is a rhythm called top-of-mind marketing where you tell them what you’ve done, what you’ve accomplished, why it’s important, what you have done with their money, and then ask for money. Too often, we send out an end-of-year mailing that asks for money and think people will jump to when they haven’t heard from us all year. This relation piece. How does the relationship piece fit into the buzz?

Michael: The relationship piece is where social media can play a huge role. You’re able to stay connected with your audience much more easily and much more economically these days than you were in the past. If you have a passionate base of Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter followers, you are able to maintain a relationship with them easier throughout the year rather than just relying on printed newsletters and mailers. That is one way.

Hugh: I see a lot of posts that people are pushing out. It’s all about them. I go, Okay, who’s next? We want to tell people about the good work that we’re doing, but how you get into social media is actually social. How do we build this relationship piece in the buzz?

Michael: Powerful video and photos can help you out. Focusing on not you, but on the people you’re serving. That seems fairly obvious, but sometimes it’s worth reminding people about. When you’re pushing out stuff about your organization, maybe it’s less about the photo with the donor presenting a check, and it’s more about the children or the animals or whatever the cause is that is being benefited by that check. Those are the people you need to be focusing on and featuring in your marketing.

Hugh: You started Buzz because you have a passion specifically for assisting nonprofit leaders.

Michael: Indeed. Not only a passion for that, but I am a huge believer in the mission of nonprofits. Not to go into a political vent here, but in our political atmosphere today, what’s happening in government is very concerning. Meanwhile, we have these nonprofits we can all rally around, and that I think are doing the work of what it is to be an American. It’s the nonprofits that are bringing community together, whereas other institutions seem to be tearing communities apart. Whatever I can do to help that and to strengthen nonprofits, to build better community, that is what Buzz is about. I am also wanting to feature these very talented individuals in terms of creative marketing folks who are willing to give their time and expertise in order to help nonprofits do more and do better.

Hugh: You have the podcast. I had trouble finding it because I was looking for Buzz. But it’s Inside the Hive that you search for.

Michael: If you search Buzz and Hive on iTunes or Apple Podcasts or Spotify, you’ll find it. Buzz: Inside the Hive.

Hugh: I kept bombing out with Buzz yesterday, but I finally tried Inside the Hive and it came up. You can also go to the website

Michael: is my website, and there is a page on there for the podcast. The actual address of the podcast is

Hugh: The podcast, how long have you been doing it?

Michael: I started it in November. It’s meant to be an accompanying piece to the TV show. Originally, it was meant to tell some behind-the-scenes stories of shooting an episode. Since we only have one episode so far, I have expanded it to provide more marketing tips and tools for nonprofits, interviewing various marketing professionals in our area, on a particular aspect of marketing. With Wordsprint, we are talking about print. The most recent one was with a web specialist to talk about the importance of maintaining and developing and designing a website for a nonprofit. You can see all of them on the podcast page. It’s meant to be the podcast, and with the TV show, and really just trying to provide a lot of marketing resources to nonprofits to succeed.

Hugh: There is a number of topics, like video, getting the grant, geofencing, retargeting, mobile conquesting. Oh my. “How Nonprofits Can Navigate the Increasingly Sophisticated Matrix of Digital and Social Advertising.” Say a little bit about in the mix here, we’ve got the paid advertising on Facebook or social media platforms. There is also organic. There is SEO for your website that would bring in organic traffic. There is also Google AdWords, which can drive a lot of traffic. What is the secret to getting buzz in AdWords?

Michael: This is why I go out and interview these folks for the podcast. Usually, it’s because it’s surrounding an issue that I don’t know much about. I feel like I am probably a little above average when it comes to doing the marketing for a nonprofit, and if I don’t know that much about a particular facet of marketing, then I want to go interview somebody about it. Google AdWords, the gentleman I interviewed for that geofencing/geotargeting episode is an incredible mind when it comes to digital advertising. He wades into those waters. I recommend listening to the podcast. Specifically about Google AdWords is something I need to devote a future podcast to.

Hugh: Having delved into it deeply, after hiring people who didn’t deliver what I wanted, I now manage it myself. With the Google Grant, I am spending the $10,000, and I am getting specific traffic to specific places. I am listening with very open ears about what it is that you want to get people’s attention, but how do you convert them? You create buzz, and people talk about it. They go home. We didn’t make any money; nobody bought anything. Nobody came to your event. There is what we call conversion. You market, but how do we get people to play a game with us? Is that part of your methodology? Do we have some way to create tangible results from this?

Michael: That is certainly something I am a big believer in with nonprofits I have marketed. I am moving away from print advertising because you don’t know what that conversion might be, and trying to do more in terms of digital and social where you can track click-through rates and conversion points and viewers who are clicking to your website, what page they are going to. That is a direction I am going in. Less on display advertising or radio and TV because it’s more of a shotgun approach rather than some laser-focused advertising that you can do in the digital world.

Hugh: With your background in the newspaper business, how do you advise people who have a story, but they aren’t good at putting it on paper? How do you advise them to deal with that? There are tracks you get people to get on. They have all this stuff, but they are not really good at writing.

Michael: Living in this post-textual world, I think the ability to write is always important, but writing is not necessarily the only way to tell a good story these days. Maybe it’s video or photos. I would not give up on that. What I would say is again, figuring out who your audience is and then trying to find what makes you unique in the world of nonprofits. Are you the animal shelter? There are lots of animal shelters out there, but what sets yours apart? Are you focusing solely on cats, dogs, or Dalmatians? Are you providing service animals to people who are in need? Whatever it is, trying to find one thing about your nonprofit that makes you unique. That so often is going to drive what story you’re telling.

Hugh: That’s what I would call the unique value proposition. What sets your organization apart from all the others? This would apply to churches and community cause-based organizations. Some churches should be more cause-based because they are no better than the government right now with all the fighting. It’s focusing on what we want to do for others. I think there is a real remedy with what you’re offering for people to rally around causes. If we find we have things in common, then the other things don’t matter as much if you are working side by side with somebody in the trenches doing good.

Michael: Right.

Hugh: So Buzz was a concept. You launched the podcast in November. How often does it come out?

Michael: The podcast is every two weeks. It’s been in the launch phase by happenstance whenever I get one done, but now I’m going back to that rhythm, to create a rhythm of every two weeks on a Tuesday.

Hugh: We have a rhythm of Tuesday at 2:00. We broadcast live, and then we release this podcast the following Sunday. I can see a spike in the downloads right after that. It’s like people are sitting around waiting for the next episode. That’s a good thing. I have subscribed to podcasts, and they don’t come out when I expect, so I am disappointed if I am looking for it.

Let’s unpack the TV show a little bit. What is involved in creating the TV show? It sounds complicated. Do you have a studio?

Michael: No. I am not the one producing it. We started out last year. I was able to put together a team, all of whom were willing to donate their time in order to create the pilot episode. The idea behind that was let’s create what the show will look like, that we can show to potential partners and funders who will finance a full season of episodes.

Last year, I worked with a local company who had a video production team that was part of its mission. Click and Pledge Foundation. Great organization in terms of their video production. They came on board. We were able to work with a couple of hosts for the show because our thinking was that every episode, we had a different cast of characters with nonprofits and advertising agencies, so we needed to have a consistent theme along the way. Our two hosts, Becky Freemal, a local very well-known TV journalist (former) and now in the corporate world, along with a guy named Kevin Jones, who was an All-American runningback at Virginia Tech in 2001-2002, first round draft pick by the NFL in 2002 or 2003, I believe. Had a good career in the NFL. Came back to Blacksburg, finished his degree at Virginia Tech. got an MBA at Virginia Tech. Started his own marketing firm. Great guy. The two of them were our hosts.

Of course, the nonprofit was Healing Strides of Virginia. They provide horse-riding therapy to children with developmental disabilities to veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. A great organization, but again, they weren’t able to properly promote themselves. A local advertising agency called B2C Enterprises stepped in, provided a $25,000 marketing makeover. That was all we captured in the pilot episode. Healing Strides and the marketing makeover they received from B2C. A half-hour episode that we premiered at the Grandin Theater in Roanoke in November. Had a packed house. Since then, the Click and Pledge Foundation has had to step aside, so we are moving forward with a different production company here in Roanoke called Red Velocity. We’ve lined up the production team. We’re partnering with the American Advertising Federation of Roanoke, which has a 501(c)3 themselves in order to raise funds. We did about $350,000 to fund a full year of episodes and a full year of buzz. That’s where we are right now. Looking forward to wrapping up that fundraising here by summer, and to start producing some episodes. We have the nonprofits ready to go, and we have the marketing agencies ready to go. Now we need the funding to get us there.

Hugh: You have the TV station willing to run it.

Michael: Correct. Blue Ridge PBS, they’re enthusiastic about running it. They also say they can get it on other public television stations throughout Virginia and other states around Virginia.

Hugh: I was going to ask you about the reach. This is a national project, not just southwest Virginia.

Michael: Correct. While the stories we’ll be telling originate in southwest Virginia, the nonprofits and agencies, we believe they’ll have a national audience. Every community across the country has a rescue mission or a children’s theater or a rescue squad or an animal rescue center. While they are all happening here, every community across the country we believe will be able to relate to the show. We will start regionally, but there is a path for it to air nationally on public television stations. Not only that, but we will have a hit on our own social media.

Hugh: That’s great. If people want to contact you, can I give them your email?

Michael: Absolutely.

Hugh: It’s If people want to help you produce the show. It would occur to me that this would be a great opportunity for a corporate sponsorship, for a corporation to put their name on this project. It’s an idea whose time has come. Southwest Virginia I’m sure will have some traction around the country. As I travel speaking to nonprofit groups, the issues are the same everywhere. You can’t handle enough of them. Is there a TV show that you’re modeling this after?

Michael: No. I was unaware of such a TV show when it came- I guess it might be something like Extreme Makeover, the show where they redesign somebody’s house who might not otherwise be able to afford it, who is under dire straits and giving them a new house. Something along those lines. But this is like Extreme Makeover for nonprofits.

Hugh: It’s not like Shark Tank where they are getting advice.

Michael: There is a Shark Tank component to it as well. You are trying to better align a nonprofit to be able to reach more people and succeed in a corporate world.

Hugh: Great. Michael Hemple, we’re rounding up to the end of this interview. We’ve packed a lot of initial stuff into this. A year from now, I’m sure you’ll have Part B of this story that will be quite accelerated from where you are now.

Michael: That’s certainly the goal.

Hugh: What I know about you is you put your mind to it, and you will make sure it happens. What I’m hearing, I want to highlight, is that you’re not doing this alone. A lot of people have great ideas, and they get burned out trying to make it happen. What you’ve done is put a whole group of people around you, competent people, who have complementing skills. I don’t know about this topic, but I have somebody I can bring in who does know this topic. That’s an important leadership lesson for anybody to learn. I like to highlight the good leadership sound bites on the show.

Michael: I feel like I know what I know, and I know what I don’t know. I need to make sure that I get the people around me who can fill in the other part. Also, I’m a big believer in what you can accomplish when you don’t care who gets credit. You can certainly go farther as a team than as an individual.

Hugh: Those are all good sound bites. I noticed the Grandin poster behind you. I’m looking forward.

Michael: That was the team who brought together the pilot episode.

Hugh: Is the pilot able to view anywhere online?

Michael: If you go to our Facebook page, @Buzz4Good, you can see the nine-minute summary of the pilot. You can see how the story will go for every other nonprofit that we feature. If you want to subscribe to our irregular newsletter, we can send that to anyone who wants to reach out to me via our website. You can enter your email there.

Hugh: When you film the episodes, is there a live audience?

Michael: No. Not other than the people who are participating. It’s not before an audience.

Hugh: I like those makeover things because you are rooting for them. It has to come out of the ground. All of a sudden, wow, actually, aren’t you helping people learn how to do it for themselves? Are you doing it for people, or are you helping people learn how to do it?

Michael: It’s going to be a bit of both. The marketing company comes in. For instance, in the pilot episode, with Healing Strides, B2C came in and developed a new logo, tagline, website, promotional commercial, Instagram page. Then they provided some suggestions on how to take that branding they have done and carry it forward. The branding itself is only part of it. What are you going to do with it? That becomes teaching the nonprofit how to best incorporate the branding they have been given in order to keep that buzz going as they move forward on their own.

Hugh: It’s essential to have the branding so you can then effectively market.

Michael: Exactly. The branding itself is part of the puzzle, but it’s incorporating that into not only your looking outward, but into your values that are within the organization.

Hugh: This is so good. I’m going to have a marketing message moment. Is there something that we didn’t talk about that we need to talk about before we go to closing out this really nice interview?

Michael: Not that I can think of. We’ve covered the highlights of the project and the important points when it comes to marketing. Wordsprint is a great resource. Bill Gilmer there, not only is he providing recommendations for the business he can provide, but also just in general, some great marketing concepts. I learned as much from him as anyone.

Hugh: We were just there Thursday. That’s how I found out about Buzz4Good. He is doing the Lynchburg Symphony’s mailings as well as SynerVision’s.

*Sponsor message from Wordsprint*

Michael, as we round off this interview, what do you want to leave people with? Do you have a final thought or a tip?

Michael: In terms of what I’m doing, I would love for them to stay connected with us by going to our website, subscribing to our newsletter (I promise it’s not a spam feature. It’s something you might receive once every two to four weeks with an update about the project. Love to keep you engaged.) If you are a nonprofit and would like to be considered for the show once we get the production going, I’d love to hear from you there. If you have any marketing resources who is helping with the show, let me know about that. If you believe in it and have a foundation or corporation interested in helping with the production costs, get in touch with me as well.

Hugh: You can stay in touch there. It’s an open Facebook group. Michael, it’s a worthy cause. Thank you for championing that which you bring into the world, and thank you for telling your story on The Nonprofit Exchange today.

Michael: Thank you so much, my friend.

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