Leading with Purpose

Creating High-Performance Teams 

Dr. Stephen Müller is the Dean of the School of Music at Liberty University, where he leads faculty and academic programs with a focus on transformational leadership and excellence. He is known for building a high-performing culture rooted in trust, collaboration, and shared vision. Drawing on his experience as a musician, educator, and leader, Dr. Müller helps teams translate vision into performance. His leadership insights are highly relevant for nonprofit and organizational leaders seeking to cultivate engaged people and sustainable results.

 

The Interview Transcript

Hugh Ballou

Welcome to the Nonprofit Exchange. This episode is so exciting. I’ve got a new friend who’s in the town where I live, the city where I live, Lynchburg, Virginia. He’s the dean of the music school at Liberty University. And with a short visit with him, I just was amazed at the impact he’s had in the short time he’s been there. And I know this because I know the people in the music school. And so this is an example of how a leader Bills high-performing culture. So welcome today. Dr. Stephen Mueller It’s such a pleasure to have you on the non-profit exchange. Thank you. Hugh. It’s great to be here with you Now, tell us just a little bit about your background. You know, you’ve got degrees in various fields, but you’ve been able to, in your career, have significant impact where you have led before. But you’ve taken all of those experiences and you use them currently in your role as dean of the music school at Liberty, right?

Dr. Stephen Müller

Yeah, so my background has seemingly had two different tracks. One of them has been in music education as a high school choir director, then university professor. The other track was in ministry as an associate pastor and minister of music or worship leader for many years, seemingly going back and forth, so I equipped myself academically in both of those areas. Not understanding until later that that’s kind of the journey that God had me on to get me in a role where I had equipped myself for and continue to equip myself for doing what I’m doing. So it’s been a neat journey, very interesting road, kind of diverse in the application of my skills and career, but coming together here at Liberty University.

Hugh Ballou

Well, here’s my experience about you. As dean, you’ve led growth and development of a thriving music faculty and academic community. You’ve cultivated a culture that’s rooted in excellence, collaboration, and shared purpose. Your leadership demonstrates how a clear vision, trust, and accountability can transform not only performance outcomes, but also people. You bring unique perspective shaped by both your musical artistry and your organizational leadership ability, offering valuable lessons for our nonprofit audience today. So, you also have a PhD in transformational leadership, don’t you?

Dr. Stephen Müller

Yeah, well actually I have a doctor of ministry in transformational leadership and then a PhD in music education. So kind of combining all of those things into this role.

Hugh Ballou

So define your role as the dean of this culture in the School of Music. How do you bring your values of transformational leadership to this role?

Dr. Stephen Müller

So I think for me, I lead relationally. That’s the first thing. I really want the people on the team to know that I care about them. I’m here to journey along with them while I’m leading them. To back that up, obviously, credentials and experience and aptitude and ability are there. But since I lead with relationships, knowing that your leader cares about you really helps you want to work harder. And so that’s what I found. I’ve got a building full of professionals. They exceed me musically and professionally in so many ways. And so my leadership of them consists of making sure they have what they need to do what they need to do and empowering them to go and do the work, not trying to lord over them or micromanage, but just give them what they need to do what they need to do. And sometimes that giving them is a no and having to say no, but really just creating opportunity for them to thrive.

Hugh Ballou

Well, in the direct conversations, sometimes you’d have to stop rehearsals, say trumpets, that’s too loud. You didn’t criticize them, you just are balancing what’s going on. Now, just because you’re on a podium and you have a baton, doesn’t mean you’re a dictator. You’re an influencer. So we struggle with control. A lot of leaders struggle with control. But really, on a podium, you’re really on control. You inspire and you empower. So translate that into the next step of building the high-performing culture at the music school.

Dr. Stephen Müller

Sure, I think trust is a word that would work. If we can establish a relationship built on trust, whether I’m saying yes or no to somebody, they’re okay with it. They’re okay. And sometimes what that means is I have to do a little more coaching. For example, if someone wants something or wants to do something that doesn’t align with our mission or the direction we’re going, but they really believe in it, Sometimes I have to come alongside and say, okay, here’s why we’re not going to do that. It’s not that the thing is wrong, to use the analogy of the trumpets. Trumpets, that was a great sound, great in quality and quantity. It was great, and it was just too much. Okay, okay. So then they put it in perspective. Same thing, because I work with a building full of creatives, professional practitioners in their craft, professional academics and instructors, they have great ideas because they’re creatives. Well, not all of the ideas can be done. Not all of them should be done now. So we refine that creative energy towards a direction, a mutual direction that we’re going. Does this align with our mission? Is this where we’re going as a school of music? Is this where we’re going as a university? And sometimes it’s just that little extra Conversation a little extra coaching that helps them understand. Okay. This is a great idea I just can’t do it now or you know, I’m just not gonna do it here.

Hugh Ballou

So just just again the trust and the relationship so You’ve worked in various types of organizations the church and the community of the nonprofit. I mean, you’ve worked in a nonprofit community, you worked in, well, at Liberty, a university is a nonprofit, also an academic environment. So what are the constants? I mean, there’s, leadership is constant no matter where you are. So talk about what’s consistent, no matter where you lead.

Dr. Stephen Müller

Sure. You know, working in K-12 public education, it’s another one of those areas that the constants are, We have some, not guardrails, but some bumpers, some things that keep us within our purpose, but also they sometimes restrict us. It might be a budgetary thing. Okay, we have limited budgets, that’s a constant. In nonprofits and in education, academia, ministry, You’re also working with a mixture of volunteers and staff people, or faculty in my case, as well as staff. And everyone ideally has a similar goal and mission to serve the org, to serve the greater mission of the entity that we’re working with. So I think those are some common things. Again, the usually limited budgets and a mix of volunteers and paid staff, but really a commitment to mission. And that’s one of the things that we work hard on and that Liberty does well, is that commitment to our mission. So when, as a leader, if I were in a nonprofit role, really reminding people constantly that mission, what is our mission, that commitment to mission, because those are things that we’ll sacrifice for. Those are things that we don’t mind submitting ourselves to. If I know that my leader is committed to the mission, I will follow that leader. Because trusting that he or she has the best interests, not only of me in mind, but of the org. So those are some things that come to mind, Hugh.

Hugh Ballou

Absolutely. And I hear, I coach leaders from all levels. And I hear constantly, well, they don’t do this. They’re blaming other people. that one of the, I’ve studied with lots of really famous conductors, but one of them, I forgot who, Ronnie Eichelberger says, what they see is what you get. And so the modeling, you model values, you model behaviors. So you’ve created a relationship and trust, but talk about how role model and modeling your values and principles is important in building the high-performing culture.

Dr. Stephen Müller

Sure. Well, I think character, integrity is the foundation of anyone’s role, not just for a leader, but for me, that trust that I mentioned earlier is not just built on our interactions, but it’s that the people in the org see how I live my life, how I fill my role. If I’m doing it with character and integrity, it helps build that trust. Now, the other thing I try to live in front of the faculty and staff is understanding the limitations of our role, understanding that there are things in our control and things outside of our control. It doesn’t really do any good to complain about things outside of our control. you know, we do a SWOT analysis with somebody, and they’ll get down to the threats. What are the threats to our organization? Well, most of the time, those are things outside of our control. It’s really frustrating to focus on things outside of our control. And if we’re not careful, we’ll just become a complainer because there’s nothing we can do. Now, when we look at our weaknesses, those are usually things that we can do something about. There’s a problem in the org, but it’s because I need to do something. And I have always found in kindergarten, you learn mind your own business, right? Well, when I’m minding my own business within my role, within the parameters that are set by the role or by somebody else, it’s pretty much a full-time job taking care of me, doing my job. So I don’t have to worry about whether he or she is doing their job or what the leadership above me is doing. So that kind of takes the pressure off of me. I don’t have control over that, but I do have control in my sphere of influence. So I think as I share some of those challenges in my own life with the faculty and staff, It helps them also realize, OK, if they will focus on what is in their control, what they do have influence on, it’ll relieve a lot of that pressure. They’ll be more productive. They’ll have more joy at work. They’ll be a better team member. They’ll be a better neighbor. I hate to say it as minding your own business, but really, truly taking care of the business that is in front of you and that is your responsibility. Maybe that’s a professional academic way to apply that kindergarten message.

Hugh Ballou

You know, managing myself is a full-time job. John Maxwell talks about the law of the lid, that the organization cannot function any higher than our ability to lead. So I have a two-part. And he also talks about the 360 influence. So the two-part question, what do you do to continue your personal growth so that you’re going up that scale? And then you’re in middle leadership. You’re not the president of the university. You’re not the provost. You, because you’re you and you’re developing excellence, you impact people everywhere in the organization, not just below you. So, first keeping yourself, you know, in a personal growth mode, let’s say, and then how does that impact everybody in the organization?

Dr. Stephen Müller

Sure. You know, we’re talking about maybe the limit of our own experience and development. What I try to do is, I have a great provost office leadership team above me, and so I’m trying to glean from them and be in relationship with them regularly. I want to hang around with successful people that are above me and other deans that are at the level I am. We fellowship together at least once a week with a good group of deans. I have submitted myself to some mentorship via the provost’s office. Our provost is a great guy, and he said, yeah, I’ll work with you. So he works with me, and when I say works with me, he’ll give me things to read, he’ll talk to me, but more importantly, he’ll challenge me. He’ll tell me no, and he kind of holds my feet to the fire on some areas where I need developing. So that’s really important. I’ve also Because there were some areas that I hadn’t studied, I have a terminal degree in theology, and I have a terminal degree in music education. I had never studied leadership and business, and so last summer I started an MBA, so I’m halfway through a Master of Business Administration, and man, I’m learning so much. What it’s doing, Hugh, is it’s opening my eyes to why I get told no sometimes. There are business reasons and administrative reasons. And I’m like, oh, well, that makes a lot of sense. So lifelong learner, having someone, I’ll say above me, who’s pouring into me that helps me do similar for people that I lead. So just really trying to be, it sounds, like a paradox, but trying to be humble in my role, meaning I’ll never know everything, so I need to keep learning. Interestingly, that gives me confidence in my role as a leader, because I’m being validated and it’s confirming that I do not only have maybe the authority, but I’m backing it up with experience and knowledge and wisdom, which makes for a great leader, not just to have authority and power, but to have compassion and knowledge and wisdom. And again, it goes back to that trust thing and relationships and whatnot.

Hugh Ballou

I want to point out to people listening or watching, if you didn’t get all these great ideas, there will be a transcript on the page, on the podcast. So don’t worry, you can go back and catch up on it with the transcript that’s there. Vaughan Williams, the British composer, conductor, is known to have said, music did not reveal all of its secrets to just one person. So that reminds me of that quote, you could change the word music to leadership. Right. To be in the dean. So that’s a really wise quote. I can’t find the quote, but I think he did say that. So in the work of Murray Bowen, a psychiatrist, family systems, talks about multigenerational transmission process. And I, in my 50s, 60s, discovered One thread of my family, CPA, black or white. Other part of my family is nonlinear. So what am I as a conductor? I am right, left brain. So talk about the advantage of that. You know, when Robert Sheldon… does a dress rehearsal, he’s got every minute scoped out. So, he’s doing creativity within that. So, as a conductor, we can balance the creative and the systems, you know, analytical. So, talk about how that’s an advantage, having that skill set as a leader.

Dr. Stephen Müller

Sure. Well, I think sometimes that line between the two is much fuzzier than we would think. The story, it’s anecdotal and probably true that a young student went up to master conductor Bernstein one time and just said, how do you conduct and lead us so musically and so inspirationally? And the story goes that he said, I look at the music and what the composer wrote in there And I do it. And that was the secret, the confines of the written music. provided the space for musical creativity. So I think as we lead creatives in business, we would probably call them entrepreneurs, and sometimes feel like, well, I’m not an entrepreneur. Well, in our space, they’re creatives. And so really, and then we have the people that I would say they have the music theory mind. You know, they want to know the math, the structure. But we kind of end up in the same place. A good creative knows how to put structure to their creativity, like a good entrepreneur knows how to put form to a plan and create something. And on the other side, there are those that understand what’s going on behind the scenes, whether it’s accounting or the analytical, the data part behind the creative, or the musical structure, how music is built. But we end up in either a healthy functioning org or in a performance. You can’t have one without the other and be successful. So as a guy in the middle, I’m moving into executive leadership. In an org that is creative and expressive, we really do need each other. And a lot of people have, like you mentioned, you really do have both. You can function really well in either one, but your best work comes in the middle. Nothing’s really great on either end. Let me give you an example. I have some great ideas and some songs, some melodies that I’ve written, and they’re incredible. and no one will ever hear them. Because I’ve got to get that other side of me, the discipline, and get it down and refine it and have people look at it and shape it. And then maybe something good will come out of it. Or on the other hand, it’s the paralysis of analysis. It has to be perfect. And I can’t release anything because it’s not perfect. But in the middle, these two things meet. And I think that’s maturity, where we can say, yes, this creative idea now has structure. or my, however you want to apply that. And in the middle, we have productivity and efficiency and stuff that everybody can enjoy, whether it’s a business or a piece of music or a music school or a university, we’ve got to have it all.

Hugh Ballou

Let’s talk about, that is such a great answer. And it’s paying attention. You got the rules, you got your principles, you got your procedures, but wait a minute, life happens. So one of the things in all of these dynamics that you’re talking about, very creative people, very well-meaning people, let’s talk about the fictitious topic of conflict. So conflict in one sense is the sign of energy. So many leaders want to just avoid it, which makes it worse, and just retract. So people are, you’ve built trust, you’ve built relationship, and so it’s like the trumpet thing. You didn’t assassinate the person, you just made a course correction, and if you don’t do that, you’re perceived as a poor leader. So there’s another balance here. How do you How do you recommend, in the culture of volunteers, where even paid people, you know, have personal feelings. So, how do you do course corrections and still preserve the relationship with the person and their personal integrity?

Dr. Stephen Müller

Sure. We use a phrase around here all the time. We’ll say, man, that’s a good problem. but it’s a problem. There are things that we run into all the time that are legitimate problems. It’s a conflict, either it’s a decision that people can’t agree on, but these are problems, we don’t know what to do, we have too many of this or not enough of that, and we regularly come to the conclusion that, man, this is a problem, but it’s a good problem, because it’s forcing us to think outside the box. We’re gonna have to make decisions that are gonna make us more efficient, gonna make us better, but someone’s gonna have to yield So we go back to that tension there. It goes back to relationships when you have to deal with somebody. There is a conflict, there’s a stressor. I’ll tell the staff and faculty, as their leader, you can come and tell me anything you need to tell me. You can come and say something about me. You can say something to me. There’s a time and a place. The biblical model we use is speaking the truth in love. On one side, there’s the error of speaking the truth. Well, at least I’m honest. You know, we talk about that and you got these rude people that are kind of jerks and they’ll fall back on that. Well, at least I’m honest. or we’ll have these non-confrontational people, right? And by the way, when someone says, at least I’m honest, what they mean is, I’m gonna be honest about you and your faults, never about their own. Or you have the non-confrontational people that don’t, they just wanna get along, so they never confront anything, they never bring up anything that’s hard or that needs to be dealt with, but the model is speaking the truth in love, and I always define that as telling the truth, speaking the truth in the context of a loving relationship. What that means is, like a medical doctor, it’s pretty rude. In 2024, I had two knees replaced. That doctor, Hugh, that doctor was very unkind to me. He cut me. He cut me. And he tore out with violence my knee joint, cut my bones and puts, it was so mean and it hurt afterwards and it took my, well, why did he do that? Because the truth is I needed it. So sometimes in relationships and leadership, we have these hard things. So understanding that it’s good for the person and good for the org. I don’t think leadership decisions are necessarily bad for a normal or a good employee, but good for the org. I think eventually they’re good for the person and good for the org, even if they’re uncomfortable. So working through that, and again, relationally, coming alongside somebody, when people need to talk to me if I’ve done something wrong, they can come into my office, we’ll close the door, they can say whatever we want. Now, there’s a way to say things, and same thing with me, if I need to confront somebody, I don’t want to do it publicly. That’s not good leadership. But really having that kind of relational equity between us that says, yeah, come and tell me what you want, because I’m not perfect. Man, I mess up as much as anybody. So I do need people coming and speaking truth into my life. Why? Because they love me. So that’s some of the principles of how I try to address these things.

Hugh Ballou

One of the important leadership principles skills that we know is listening. And there’s different ways to listen. And so you’ve just demonstrated that. And one of the things I see leaders in the bigger the organization, the tougher it is for them to ask for people’s ideas and opinions. Because they feel like when they hear it, they’re obliged to follow them. So every group I’ve worked with for 40 plus years, plus the places where I work, has inspired me and I’ve learned from everybody. So, talk for a minute about, you know, the exchange that you have. Now, I’m going to talk about Liberty a minute. I’ve attended the CEO Summit and I’m just going to put that out in the air here. That’s a banner event. It’s where leaders come to network and high principle leaders. And on campus, every student I meet has the values you’re talking about. Nobody’s complaining, and of course I’ve worked with people in your music staff. Nobody complains, which is not really typical for musicians. We don’t want to complain about somebody else. So, the culture is very affirming, the culture is very proactive, and the culture is very positive. So, for those leaders who are trying in the trenches, local charities or churches, those people leading from any position, what would be your thought? You’ve learned from things wrong, but how would you suggest people step forward to grow their leadership skill and build their cultures with this honest dialogue?

Dr. Stephen Müller

Yeah, so one of the things that happened a couple years ago, we had an accrediting body out here, and three visitors from outside universities came in, and one of the findings that they started with was they had not visited another university, where the commitment to mission was as universal as it was here. And they said from the students, to the staff, to the faculty, to the lower administration, upper administration, the commitment to mission was consistent, and that was something commendable in their eyes. So I think when people are all rowing in the same direction or pulling in the same direction, it makes it easier. Now, as far as people’s ideas, one of the things that the leadership team and I try to do, I mentioned it before, I have a building full of experts, and one of the things that they thrive in is getting opportunity to exert their expertise or to offer ideas from their expertise. Now, what I don’t do, I don’t go in and say, hey, what would you like to do? But what I will do is give them an arena to be the expert. So we’ll kind of frame it in. I’ll say, hey, in this area regarding this curricular idea or this ensemble or these classes, how would you, and then I’ll list out either the problem or the opportunity ahead of them. So instead of giving them just carte blanche dream, I’ll say, hey, in this arena where you’re our expert, what do you recommend? And then we begin a dialogue. And whether it’s myself or one of our associate deans or one of our chairs, Because everyone wants to be heard. Yes, we need to listen as leaders and everyone needs to, but everyone wants to be heard as well. So I honor them and their role and their accomplishments by giving them opportunity to influence decisions that are made. And what I found was when someone has an opportunity to share what they think about something, it enriches them whether we do that or not. Sometimes, yeah, you didn’t pick my decision, but thank you for hearing me out. And I’m like, well, I’m wiser because I heard you out, and it helped me realize that we need to do something a little bit different. So if I don’t go with what you think, it doesn’t mean your input was invaluable. I mean, it was not valuable. It helped formulate what we’re doing. So really, that gives more buy-in relationally, organizationally, professionally. Everyone is a contributing member to the org.

Hugh Ballou

This time has gone so fast, you know, 25 minutes, boom. This has been inspiration. I’ve heard some great themes that nonprofit leaders and church leaders can learn from today. You know, be very clear on your values, be very clear on your leadership position, have a mentor, because we don’t know everything, and have relationship and dialogue with the people that you’re responsible for leading. So what’s one takeaway tip that you want to leave with leaders that, from your experience, that you say, here’s an important thing for you to consider next?

Dr. Stephen Müller

I would say, understand that, for me, there was a wonderful dean in this office before I got here. And there will be a dean in this office, very likely a wonderful dean in this office after I’m gone. So I don’t want to build things around me or make it about me. It’s about the mission. It’s about the mission. And then from the very beginning, just bloom where you’re planted. Look around you, how can I serve, how can I lead, no matter what my role is, how can I do the things that God has created me to do in whatever environment He’s created me to do it in, and then just look for opportunities to serve. And people sometimes aspire to leadership and they get frustrated, I wanna move up, I wanna… And I’m reminded that God knows where I am. If I’m serving faithfully where I am and he has something else planned for me, he knows where I am. He knew where Joseph was. Joseph, you know, when he was in prison or in a pit, He didn’t sit around and pout and go, wow, I sure wish I was the second most powerful person in Egypt. No, he was just doing what he had to do wherever he was, and you know what? God found him and got him to the place where he was supposed to be. So that’s what I’d say, just do your job, do it well, serve others, love people, do your job to the best of your ability wherever you are, and off we go.

Hugh Ballou

Dr. Stephen Mueller, Dean of the Music School at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. This has been an especially rewarding interview. I have interviewed 625 leaders on this show, and this one has been very meaningful. And you know, the details that you’ve given us, the wisdom that you share with us, work. They absolutely work. So Dr. Mueller, thank you so much for being my guest today on the Nonprofit Exchange. Thank you, Hugh.